Sarah Palin said that the invasion of Irag is “a task that is from God”. People are going to have a problem with that because Bush told us that…
I understand your point here.
Continuing on…
Altan - 06 September 2008 11:26 AM
Can you see where I’m going with this?? Palin’s comment is a clear statement that we, as Christians, invaded Iraq to fight Muslims.
This is where what you are saying breaks down rather than following through to a successful conclusion.
It is not at all clear Palin was saying that. The AP reporter took a snippet from one sentence. I can write a statement similar to what other conservatives have said in the past which take that snippet but doesn’t imply a christian vs muslim point of view. For example:
Muslims accept Christians as being people of the book. Muslims were suffering and being murdered under Saddam. From one point of view (which Christians and Muslims could share), God used the United States in Iraq to stop Saddam who had murdered several hundred thousand Muslims.
Maybe Palin used that little snippet to echo what Bush said as you think.
Maybe Palin used it in a statement similar to what I posted.
Maybe the AP reporter has no grasp of the shared spiritual background of christians and muslims and doesn’t realize the both groups admit God can use people who aren’t 100% perfectly in line spiritually to accomplish His purposes.
Maybe the AP reporter deliberately created a false impression of what Palin said in order to discredit her in the minds of his readers.
If the reporter wants to point us to a date and place when palin said that snippet, we could all look for a transcript of her speech and see the context of that what she said. (the video linky didn’t work for me earlier)
Rather than jumping to a conclusion which fits our political pre-conceptions of her.
God grant Palin the wisdom to frame any statements she makes from hereon, judiciously.
Many at PL will yell “right on, amen, praise the Lord” to her speaking in tongues of fire. But to win the crucial middle, this battle will be played out with probing of all the candidates statements, including hers. With the Foxies, talk radio, and many internet forums, the righties will scrutinize all Obama/Biden rambles, much of the rest of the media will be waiting for Hurricane Sarah to give them a quote over which they can drum up outrage.
Will the McCain campaign let Sarah be Sarah? I am guessing that she would be both a blessing and a curse, but she is such a force now, that if the folks with the mark of McCain keep her too much under wraps, things will get wierd. She also may “overstate” when she is at flag-waving, “We love Palin” rallies, but be more appropriately judicious with the media which she knows has its knives barely concealed under their togas. Anyway, I think that she must come out and do some press conferences etc, sooner or later. I want to see how this prodigy deals with them.
The “God"thing is one of the third rails of politics. You can’t say that you don’t believe in God, but you also cannot be invoking Him/Her/It all the time. If she’s smart, and I think she is, not Microsoft smart, but community, smart, she will figure it out.
Which of Palin’s remarks did you think crossed the line? As Curmudgeon implied above, we have a long history of leaders referencing God, going back to the founding of the Republic. I don’t see anything remarkable about Palin’s statements, especially given the venue.
The choice of Sarah PalinBarack Obama is full-blown Identity Politics.
Fundamentalists Moonbats and African Americans love her him because, in her him, they see someone just like themselves - they identify with her him.
There is little examination of the issues or her his policy positions - partly because she he has virtually no public record of where she he stands - but also because there is no need.
Because the fundamentalists moonbats identify with her him so completely on God, Guns and Babies, they simply assume that her policy positions on the issues we face, line up with their own. And they are probably right.
There. Fixed that for you.
How ignorant for you to suggest that people vote for someone who is against everything they believe in.
The choice of Sarah Palin is full-blown Identity Politics.
What is this judgement based on?
She is the most popular Governor in the country, supported by folks of all political persuasions. She has gone against her own party. Yet you, who claims to be conservative, refuse to give her any credit whatsoever. No benefit of the doubt until she does explain her positions to the American people?
Fundamentalists love her because, in her, they see someone just like themselves - they identify with her.
What IS your definition of “Fundamentalist”? I’m a Christian who respects and admires people who dont hide their faith. Like the old Bible School song… “This little light of mine, Im gonna let it shine… <snip>… Hide it under a bushel, NO, Im gonna let it shine”. You claim to be a Christian, yet you choose to separate Christians into categories and promote a negative stereotype. What do you suppose God thinks about the “Fundamentalists”? What do you suppose God thinks about you setting yourself apart from them? Is YOUR brand of Christianity better than theirs, Old School?
There is little examination of the issues or her policy positions - partly because she has virtually no public record of where she stands - but also because there is no need.
Because the fundamentalists identify with her so completely on God, Guns and Babies, they simply assume that her policy positions on the issues we face, line up with their own. And they are probably right.
I dont consider myself a “Fundamentalist”. I consider myself a Christian. I dont agree with every Christian and thats ok. Just as is the case with politics, I respect ones right to think and believe as they so choose.
I understand what you are trying to say and I resent it. You castigate social conservatives because they see in Palin someone they relate with. YOu imply that their support for her is based solely on God, Guns, and Babies, when it is YOU who refuses to acknowledge her conservative track record. I have witnessed it and many across the nation have come to learn of it.
You claim to be a disenfranchised republican who is presently working on Republican campaigns. You continually attack Republicans yet you dont even give Palin the credit for being someone willing to take on corruption in the Party and a track record to back that up.
Now tell me again who you are and what you stand for?
The choice of Sarah PalinBarack Obama is full-blown Identity Politics.
Fundamentalists Moonbats and African Americans love her him because, in her him, they see someone just like themselves - they identify with her him.
There is little examination of the issues or her his policy positions - partly because she he has virtually no public record of where she he stands - but also because there is no need.
Because the fundamentalists moonbats identify with her him so completely on God, Guns and Babies, they simply assume that her policy positions on the issues we face, line up with their own. And they are probably right.
There. Fixed that for you.
How ignorant for you to suggest that people vote for someone who is against everything they believe in.
5 Stars!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and I second Curmudgeon on this one, now if you will excuse me, I got some guns that need a hug.
God grant Palin the wisdom to frame any statements she makes from hereon, judiciously.
Many at PL will yell “right on, amen, praise the Lord” to her speaking in tongues of fire. But to win the crucial middle, this battle will be played out with probing of all the candidates statements, including hers. With the Foxies, talk radio, and many internet forums, the righties will scrutinize all Obama/Biden rambles, much of the rest of the media will be waiting for Hurricane Sarah to give them a quote over which they can drum up outrage.
Will the McCain campaign let Sarah be Sarah? I am guessing that she would be both a blessing and a curse, but she is such a force now, that if the folks with the mark of McCain keep her too much under wraps, things will get wierd. She also may “overstate” when she is at flag-waving, “We love Palin” rallies, but be more appropriately judicious with the media which she knows has its knives barely concealed under their togas. Anyway, I think that she must come out and do some press conferences etc, sooner or later. I want to see how this prodigy deals with them.
The “God"thing is one of the third rails of politics. You can’t say that you don’t believe in God, but you also cannot be invoking Him/Her/It all the time. If she’s smart, and I think she is, not Microsoft smart, but community, smart, she will figure it out.
Which of Palin’s remarks did you think crossed the line? As Curmudgeon implied above, we have a long history of leaders referencing God, going back to the founding of the Republic. I don’t see anything remarkable about Palin’s statements, especially given the venue.
I’m not saying that any of her statements did cross the line, but the one referenced may, or may not be one. I agree that context is very important, but once she is in national politics, with the spotlight and microscope on her, she’s got to be careful.
It is absurd how over the next seven weeks, or however much time is left, that both sides will be straining for any advantage they can get and taking any remark to spin to their advantage and smear the other side. The candidates will blab out thousands, maybe millions of words between now and election day, but the ones the media and both campaigns will be looking for will the ones that somehow can be made a “story” about how this remark shows that this person is unsuited to be President.
Just watch and see how many of these kinds of statements we are blabbing about for the next seven weeks.
God grant Palin the wisdom to frame any statements she makes from hereon, judiciously.
Many at PL will yell “right on, amen, praise the Lord” to her speaking in tongues of fire. But to win the crucial middle, this battle will be played out with probing of all the candidates statements, including hers. With the Foxies, talk radio, and many internet forums, the righties will scrutinize all Obama/Biden rambles, much of the rest of the media will be waiting for Hurricane Sarah to give them a quote over which they can drum up outrage.
Will the McCain campaign let Sarah be Sarah? I am guessing that she would be both a blessing and a curse, but she is such a force now, that if the folks with the mark of McCain keep her too much under wraps, things will get wierd. She also may “overstate” when she is at flag-waving, “We love Palin” rallies, but be more appropriately judicious with the media which she knows has its knives barely concealed under their togas. Anyway, I think that she must come out and do some press conferences etc, sooner or later. I want to see how this prodigy deals with them.
The “God"thing is one of the third rails of politics. You can’t say that you don’t believe in God, but you also cannot be invoking Him/Her/It all the time. If she’s smart, and I think she is, not Microsoft smart, but community, smart, she will figure it out.
The “God” thing is one of the three rails of Democratic politics. In a party that views religion as the enemy, except in the case of black churches, it would not do to irritate you base of atheists and agnostics. But in a country that consists of a vast majority who considers themselves religious and of that majority, a huge percentage who consider themselves Christians, it is hardly the political kiss of death to publically pay homage to one’s faith.
I have read a lot of Sarah Palin’s comments and I have come to the conclusion that she is a Bible believing Christian. I for one am very glad to see that she is. Now as for some of her statements that some of you are having difficulty with please allow me to try and re-frame her points in a way that you might understand.
She doesn’t want to go against God. She doesn’t want to oppose his will. Homosexuals for one go against God, they oppose his will. This is not something that a Christian wants to do. Christians want their lives to be in harmony with Gods will. Much of Gods will can be found in the Bible. Christians endeavor to live their lives in harmony with all of Gods will as much as possible. God has a way of letting us know when we are not doing so. Now is that simple enough for you folks?
She is the most popular Governor in the country, supported by folks of all political persuasions. She has gone against her own party. Yet you, who claims to be conservative, refuse to give her any credit whatsoever. No benefit of the doubt until she does explain her positions to the American people?
What IS your definition of “Fundamentalist”? I’m a Christian who respects and admires people who dont hide their faith. Like the old Bible School song… “This little light of mine, Im gonna let it shine… <snip>… Hide it under a bushel, NO, Im gonna let it shine”. You claim to be a Christian, yet you choose to separate Christians into categories and promote a negative stereotype. What do you suppose God thinks about the “Fundamentalists”? What do you suppose God thinks about you setting yourself apart from them? Is YOUR brand of Christianity better than theirs, Old School?
I dont consider myself a “Fundamentalist”. I consider myself a Christian. I dont agree with every Christian and thats ok. Just as is the case with politics, I respect ones right to think and believe as they so choose.
I understand what you are trying to say and I resent it. You castigate social conservatives because they see in Palin someone they relate with. YOu imply that their support for her is based solely on God, Guns, and Babies, when it is YOU who refuses to acknowledge her conservative track record. I have witnessed it and many across the nation have come to learn of it.
You claim to be a disenfranchised republican who is presently working on Republican campaigns. You continually attack Republicans yet you dont even give Palin the credit for being someone willing to take on corruption in the Party and a track record to back that up.
Now tell me again who you are and what you stand for?
That opinion is based on what I observed. It didn’t take 45 minutes for the right-wing blogosphere to explode with support for Sarah Palin. It certainly wasn’t because of a reasoned examination of her on-the-record policy positions - which again, are painfully thin - but because of what they did know about her - that she is staunchly pro-life, a lifetime member of the NRA and a Bible-believing Christian.
She has indeed gone against her party at times, to my reading, when it has been politically advantageous to do so. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but a close examination of what little record is available tells me that she is talking out of both sides of her mouth. For example, the “bridge to nowhere” deal.
“Fundamentalist” is a convenient label that is well understood by most people to describe Christians of a particular theology, particularly in respect to its positions on social political issues. Those include the belief in a narrowly defined interpretation of Scripture, an extremely right-wing social policy and a hostility toward those who do not share the same theology.
If you chose to be offended by that definition, there isn’t really anything I can do about that. When you choose to be offended by my earlier statement of opinion about the Identity Politics I see in the social conservatives support of Sarah Palin, there isn’t anything that I can do about that. It was simply an opinion based on my observation. If you chose to be offended by the term “fundamentalist”, it’s because it has come to be used by many as a pejorative - sometimes accurately, sometimes not - but almost always because the Fundamentalists are so hostile toward those who aren’t.
I give Mrs. Palin full credit for her record on the social issues that we know of so far in the sense that I acknowledge them as being what has gotten the social conservatives so fired up, but I also disagree with them, and it is my God-given right to say so.
For instance, on the abortion issue . . . While I am not for abortion (and I have the 4 kids to prove it), I disagree strongly that it should be outlawed in every single instance. On the 2nd amendment, I am a strong supporter, but I don’t believe there should be no laws whatsoever on gun ownership. And I certainly do not agree with Mr. Palin’s fundamentalist theology - if indeed that is what she believes.
I’ll give you credit for something. Your comments toward me over the past several days have made me realize that I almost exclusively post my negativity toward today’s GOP, and seldom, if ever, speak up for what I agree with it on. My hostility toward what the GOP has come to be, is little different than the hostility that Fundamentalist display toward others faith and that is unacceptable to me.
I’ll give you credit for something. Your comments toward me over the past several days have made me realize that I almost exclusively post my negativity toward today’s GOP, and seldom, if ever, speak up for what I agree with it on.
Oh, so NOW you get it Old School? That’s what many of us have been saying for weeks now. Where else did we get this notion that you are a water boy for the left?
I’ll give you credit for something. Your comments toward me over the past several days have made me realize that I almost exclusively post my negativity toward today’s GOP, and seldom, if ever, speak up for what I agree with it on.
Oh, so NOW you get it Old School? That’s what many of us have been saying for weeks now. Where else did we get this notion that you are a water boy for the left?
Your insistence that everyone adhere to your own particular social conservative orthodoxy, and refusal to even pretend to consider anything other than your own opinion is the biggest thing wrong with the GOP today.
That opinion is based on what I observed. It didn’t take 45 minutes for the right-wing blogosphere to explode with support for Sarah Palin. It certainly wasn’t because of a reasoned examination of her on-the-record policy positions - which again, are painfully thin - but because of what they did know about her - that she is staunchly pro-life, a lifetime member of the NRA and a Bible-believing Christian.
Is it not reasonable to assume that a Bible believing Christian will share a great many values, principles and political views with other Bible believing Christians? Given the political climate in this election cycle, is it not understandable that conservatives would get excited immediately upon the realization that McCain may have chosen THE perfect running mate… that his VP pick may just cement the election and bring the Republican Party much needed reform?
This should give you reason to celebrate. If the conservative base could get THAT fired up so quickly, and all they had to go on was that she’s a Christian and a reformer, who purged Alaska of corrupt Republicans, wouldnt that tell you something positive about these so called “Fundamentalists”? Shouldnt it tell you something positive about Sarah Palin?
But NOOOOO! Im no therapist so forgive me, but it seems to me you must have some very serious issues. Your resentment, distain, repulsion, whatever it is for Christian Conservatives is over the top.
She has indeed gone against her party at times, to my reading, when it has been politically advantageous to do so. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but a close examination of what little record is available tells me that she is talking out of both sides of her mouth. For example, the “bridge to nowhere” deal.
Old School, you minimize her accomplishments in pressuring corrupt politicians from her own party to leave office, while you detest the Party because of it’s corruption. Your contadiction has you confused, me thinks. It seems your “close examination” only finds fault. You claim youll come back to it when it gets its sh*t together, but how do you expect to recognize when that happens?
If you chose to be offended by that definition, there isn’t really anything I can do about that. When you choose to be offended by my earlier statement of opinion about the Identity Politics I see in the social conservatives support of Sarah Palin, there isn’t anything that I can do about that. It was simply an opinion based on my observation. If you chose to be offended by the term “fundamentalist”, it’s because it has come to be used by many as a pejorative - sometimes accurately, sometimes not - but almost always because the Fundamentalists are so hostile toward those who aren’t.
Im not offended by any of it. I wouldnt bother if you didnt make the claims about who you are that you have made.
So what you are saying is that your own hostility toward Fundamentalists is justified, but theirs is not?
I give Mrs. Palin full credit for her record on the social issues that we know of so far in the sense that I acknowledge them as being what has gotten the social conservatives so fired up, but I also disagree with them, and it is my God-given right to say so.
Yes it is your right. But you really dont come out and say what you do or dont believe in. You come out against what others believe.
For instance, on the abortion issue . . . While I am not for abortion (and I have the 4 kids to prove it), I disagree strongly that it should be outlawed in every single instance.
Neither do I. I believe that God breaths life into us when the heart begins beating. At that point we have developed from being a fetus to being an unborn child of God.
I have no problem with th emorning after pill because at that point we are but an organism. The problem is that I cannot prove this as fact through science or otherwise. So if I am to err, I will err on the side of NOT playing God and disapprove of abortion in total. Anything else is to risk being a murderer, or an accompliss to the same.
On the 2nd amendment, I am a strong supporter, but I don’t believe there should be no laws whatsoever on gun ownership.
Neither do I. And I dont think I have heard anyone say that there should be NO laws on gun ownership. The problem is where to draw the line. There are those who fight to ban all guns. I refuse to give them a foothold so fight against more regulation than is on the books now.
And I certainly do not agree with Mr. Palin’s fundamentalist theology - if indeed that is what she believes.
You mean you disagree with what she MIGHT believe? In advance just in case? Hmmm.
I’ll give you credit for something. Your comments toward me over the past several days have made me realize that I almost exclusively post my negativity toward today’s GOP, and seldom, if ever, speak up for what I agree with it on. My hostility toward what the GOP has come to be, is little different than the hostility that Fundamentalist display toward others faith and that is unacceptable to me.
I endeavor to change that.
Appreciate the honesty. What strikes me about this is that there are so many on the left that share your hostility toward Fundamentalist Christians(and regular ones too!!) yet they seemingly have much tolerance for a religion that teaches hate, and for it’s followers whom are willing to kill innocents in it’s name. I dont get it.
Is it not reasonable to assume that a Bible believing Christian will share a great many values, principles and political views with other Bible believing Christians? Given the political climate in this election cycle, is it not understandable that conservatives would get excited immediately upon the realization that McCain may have chosen THE perfect running mate… that his VP pick may just cement the election and bring the Republican Party much needed reform?
This should give you reason to celebrate. If the conservative base could get THAT fired up so quickly, and all they had to go on was that she’s a Christian and a reformer, who purged Alaska of corrupt Republicans, wouldnt that tell you something positive about these so called “Fundamentalists”? Shouldnt it tell you something positive about Sarah Palin?
But NOOOOO! Im no therapist so forgive me, but it seems to me you must have some very serious issues. Your resentment, distain, repulsion, whatever it is for Christian Conservatives is over the top.
It has been my point all along that the the religious right has found someone that they identify with - and that is the basis of their support for her. She may or may not be THE perfect running mate, that remains to be seen. She has certainly been a polarizing pick. McCain, in choosing her, has completed his run to the far-right from what was once a fairly moderate position on many issues.
McCain was my pick in 1999, precisely because of his more moderate social/economic positions than the rest of the field.
And I most certainly do not celebrate the GOP being dragged ever farther toward the fringe right, and I’m not that impressed with Mrs. Palin’s “reformer” credentials.
randoobula - 07 September 2008 12:08 AM
Old School, you minimize her accomplishments in pressuring corrupt politicians from her own party to leave office, while you detest the Party because of it’s corruption. Your contadiction has you confused, me thinks. It seems your “close examination” only finds fault. You claim youll come back to it when it gets its sh*t together, but how do you expect to recognize when that happens?
Saying that I “detest the Party because of it’s corruption” isn’t entirely accurate. I certainly detest political corruption on both sides of the aisle. My gripe about the GOP is that it has become the political arm of the religious right - the fundamentalists. I disagree with their theology, I disagree with their methods and tactics and I disagree with them trying to codify their theology as the law of the land.
It is precisely her kind of religious-right conservative that I believe is doing so much damage to the Party and our country.
randoobula - 07 September 2008 12:08 AM
But you really dont come out and say what you do or dont believe in.
I gave a long and detailed list of what I do and don’t believe in response to one of your posts just the other day. I spoke about my fiscal, social, security and foreign policy beliefs in a specific way.
randoobula - 07 September 2008 12:08 AM
You mean you disagree with what she MIGHT believe? In advance just in case? Hmmm.
No, I mean specifically, I disagree with her on what we know, or what has been reported at least, of her social policy positions
randoobula - 07 September 2008 12:08 AM
Appreciate the honesty. What strikes me about this is that there are so many on the left that share your hostility toward Fundamentalist Christians(and regular ones too!!) yet they seemingly have much tolerance for a religion that teaches hate, and for it’s followers whom are willing to kill innocents in it’s name. I dont get it.
This is an area that I speak out about constantly. While we are rightly and righteously outraged at “fundamentalist” Islamists who are so willing to kill innocents, where is the outrage at the innocents killed in the war we started in Iraq? I don’t get it.
Old School is not a conservative and he is not a Christian, of any stripe. You’re trying to have a rational conversation with someone who lies about who he is, which makes him irrational. It’s a waste of your time, I can assure you.
