I have never heard G. Bush say Iraq had anything to do with 9/11...perhaps you could find a legitimate quote?
We went to war with Iraq because they had continually violated the cease-fire agreement Sadaam signed in gulf war one...they were a threat to the U.S., in that they were continually putting off the weapons inspectors, which is a pretty good sign your rebuilding your WMD capability, or at least are pushing to see how far you can go, with the intention of rebuilding it in the future (probably when the U.S. had elected a weak-willed president).
Given the organization of terrorists that had built up by then, an Iraq that was even hinting that they would restart WMD production, now or in the future, was unacceptable...never forget Sadaam hated us, had already tried to assasinate Bush senior, and would have found Al-Qieda a perfect delivery system to hit U.S. cities and still keep his hands seemingly clean.
I agree that the way the press is presenting Sarah Palin’s statement, many will misconstrue this to mean some kind of “Christians fighting Muslims for God” crap, but that is not at all what she said...the work of God she speaks of is protecting American lives, as well as freeing people from tyranny and the one-sided propoganda used by those that maintain iron-fisted control through inciting unreasoning hatred (sounds a bit like Adolph, don’t it?).
The testimonials were nice and I’m sure heartfelt. They were just off the point. Wildly off the point.
Let me explain.
Sarah Palin said that the invasion of Irag is “a task that is from God”. People are going to have a problem with that because Bush told us that we were going into Iraq to avenge 9/11. When that didn’t pan out, Bush told us were going into Iraq because Saddam Hussein was collaborating with al Qaeda. You’ll notice that we’re to excuse #2 and “God” is nowhere to be seen. After the al Qaeda connection was debunked, we were told that the invasion was to stop Hussein from using the weapons of mass destruction Bush claimed he had. Still no “God”.
Now there are a whole lot of Muslims over in Iraq and they get kinda touchy when someone who might be the Vice-President someday says that God told us to invade Iraq, a country which had not done anything to us in 2003. You see, they worship the God of Abraham but they think they are the ones who have God’s correct cell phone number, not us.
Can you see where I’m going with this?? Palin’s comment is a clear statement that we, as Christians, invaded Iraq to fight Muslims.
Anyway, this going out and fighting Muslims because they aren’t Christians is both anti-American and stupid. The Muslims who don’t like us are a small minority, you know, kinda like you’re a small minority. Both of you call yourself “the Base”. Coincidence?? No.
Anyway, thanks for the testimonials. Hope I’ve reestablished the point of the thread. It appeared to me that the guy from the Associated Press understood the ramifications of what Palin was saying.
Obama constantly makes hackneyed religious references and invokes God. When Obama does this, its okay. If somebody else makes a reference to God, its “sacrilege.” I guess the only logical conclusion to draw from these observations is that only Obama, the Anointed One, may invoke the name of He Who’s Name must not be spoken. So, this is the new politics that Obama promised us? Marvelous. Nothing to see here....
With all of the digging by the press, this is worst the dirt they can find?
Obama Breaks ‘God Talk’ Tradition
By Michelle Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, Oct. 09 2007 02:57 PM EDT
Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama is overturning the traditional view that Republicans are the religious-talking lawmakers with his faith speeches and frequent church visits on the campaign trail.
Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Il., attends Redemption World Outreach Center Sunday, Oct. 7, 2007, in Greenville, S.C. Obama spoke to the church’s more than 4,000 members during services Sunday morning.
“I think that what you’re seeing is a breaking down of the sharp divisions that existed maybe during the ‘90’s,” Obama said, according to CNN Monday. “At least in politics, the perception was that the Democrats were fearful of talking about faith, and on the other hand you had the Republicans who had a particular brand of faith that oftentimes seemed intolerant or pushed people away.”
The junior Illinois senator stood in the pulpit of a Pentecostal church Sunday to challenge the partisan religious perception by telling some 4,000 worshippers that faith “plays every role” in his life.
“It’s what keeps me grounded. It’s what keeps my eyes set on the greatest of heights,” Obama told members of the Redemption World Outreach Center in Greenville, S.C., according to The Associated Press.
Faith, he said, is “what propels me to do what I do and when I am down it’s what lifts me up.”
Obama, who is a member of the United Church of Christ – considered one of the most liberal mainline Protestant denomination, also said God “is with us and He wants us to do the right thing,” such as breaking down divisions between Democrats and Republicans and among religions, according to AP.
When people work together, there is “nothing that can stop us because that’s God’s intention.” the senator exhorted.
Despite Obama’s increased “God talk,” many conservative Christians are still hesitant to embrace him. Difference on key conservative issues such as abortion and gay “marriages” has blocked Obama from being a serious candidate for many conservative voters.
Obama, although saying he personally does not support homosexuality, has refused to support a constitutional amendment banning homosexual “marriage.” Also, although Obama personally opposes abortion, he refuses to support overturning Roe v. Wade.
“I appreciate that the candidates are taking a risk when they talk about their faith,” commented Mark Earley, president of Prison Fellowship Ministries, in a past commentary.
“The problem is that all of this ‘God Talk’ misses the point: what Christians want – or should want – is a candidate who shares their moral and culture concerns, not just their religious vocabulary.”
Obama is currently ranked as the Democratic Candidate that invokes religion the most, according to religious Web site Beliefnet.com’s “God-o-Meter” – which measures “God talk” in the presidential campaign.
Obama concluded Sunday’s address from the pulpit by asking the members of Redemption church to pray for him and his family to remain on the right path.
“Sometimes you can become fearful, you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power for power’s sake,” Obama confessed, according to NBC. “Pray that I can be an instrument of God,” he pleaded.
The White House hopeful is currently on a campaign called “40 Days of Faith & Family” to reach out to primary voters in South Carolina and introduce how Obama’s family life and faith have shaped his values.
Last week, Obama attended services at a black Baptist church in West Columbia and a white Baptist church a few miles away in Columbia, South Carolina.
LINK
The testimonials were nice and I’m sure heartfelt. They were just off the point. Wildly off the point.
Let me explain.
None required. The ‘testimonials’ were also the ANSWER to the complaint, itself.
Bill Shatner might say: Do you . . . . understand?
And I’m not trying, then, to be Clint, but - do you?
Sarah Palin is an evangelical Protestant. Her critics, it would appear, are not. Furthermore, they apparently do not allow for the fact that people turn to God literally hour by hour, day by day, even if not evangelical. I, myself, am Roman Catholic. I can tell you that the great Church fathers of antiquity, the Doctors of the Church, the Sainted Pope and bishops, and priests, and nuns, and laity, all each and alike prayed to Our Lord, thanked Our Lord, and asked of Our Lord, as servants of Our Lord.
God bless the United States of America. It would not surprise me if even Obama has said that - however he meant it.
Sucks for Altard that Sarah Palin and FDR are on the same page.
“We stand ready in defense of our nation and the faith of our fathers to do what God has given us the power to see as our full duty.” Franklin Delano Roosevelt, October 27, 1941
Sarah Palin said that the invasion of Irag is “a task that is from God”. People are going to have a problem with that because Bush told us that we were going into Iraq to avenge 9/11. When that didn’t pan out, Bush told us were going into Iraq because Saddam Hussein was collaborating with al Qaeda. You’ll notice that we’re to excuse #2 and “God” is nowhere to be seen. After the al Qaeda connection was debunked, we were told that the invasion was to stop Hussein from using the weapons of mass destruction Bush claimed he had. Still no “God”.
A Canard Twofer. I love it when folks try to re-write history. The actual reasons given were WMD, Saddams’ nuke weapons program and numerous violation of UN Resolutions. Altan, the failure to find WMD’s was the best reason to beat up Bush, there is no reason to invent reasons.
Now there are a whole lot of Muslims over in Iraq and they get kinda touchy when someone who might be the Vice-President someday says that God told us to invade Iraq, a country which had not done anything to us in 2003. You see, they worship the God of Abraham but they think they are the ones who have God’s correct cell phone number, not us.
Can you see where I’m going with this?? Palin’s comment is a clear statement that we, as Christians, invaded Iraq to fight Muslims.
Well, explain why American soldiers have been dying for and beside their Muslim brothers-in-arms?
I read her comments as meaning that God wants all men to live free, even Muslim men and women. Simple enough even for you to understand.
The choice of Sarah Palin is full-blown Identity Politics.
Fundamentalists love her because, in her, they see someone just like themselves - they identify with her.
There is little examination of the issues or her policy positions - partly because she has virtually no public record of where she stands - but also because there is no need.
Because the fundamentalists identify with her so completely on God, Guns and Babies, they simply assume that her policy positions on the issues we face, line up with their own. And they are probably right.
What no one has mentioned here is that the mischaracterization of what Palin was actually saying into some kind of “crusader” rhetoric by the press, is very damaging to our country as a whole...I cannot believe that reporters are so anxious to have their side win that they would throw the whole damn country’s reputation under the bus to achieve it...this could seriously cause trouble, and maybe even cost lives, overseas.
Because the fundamentalists identify with her so completely on God, Guns and Babies, they simply assume that her policy positions on the issues we face, line up with their own. And they are probably right.
In other words, her judgment is her great qualification?
Oh we mustn’t praise Jesus, it angers the Caliph. We been knowing that, Altan. And we don’t give a damn.
The testimonials were nice and I’m sure heartfelt. They were just off the point. Wildly off the point.
Let me explain.
Sarah Palin said that the invasion of Irag is “a task that is from God”. People are going to have a problem with that because Bush told us that we were going into Iraq to avenge 9/11. When that didn’t pan out, Bush told us were going into Iraq because Saddam Hussein was collaborating with al Qaeda. You’ll notice that we’re to excuse #2 and “God” is nowhere to be seen. After the al Qaeda connection was debunked, we were told that the invasion was to stop Hussein from using the weapons of mass destruction Bush claimed he had. Still no “God”.
Now there are a whole lot of Muslims over in Iraq and they get kinda touchy when someone who might be the Vice-President someday says that God told us to invade Iraq, a country which had not done anything to us in 2003. You see, they worship the God of Abraham but they think they are the ones who have God’s correct cell phone number, not us.
Can you see where I’m going with this?? Palin’s comment is a clear statement that we, as Christians, invaded Iraq to fight Muslims.
Anyway, this going out and fighting Muslims because they aren’t Christians is both anti-American and stupid. The Muslims who don’t like us are a small minority, you know, kinda like you’re a small minority. Both of you call yourself “the Base”. Coincidence?? No.
Anyway, thanks for the testimonials. Hope I’ve reestablished the point of the thread. It appeared to me that the guy from the Associated Press understood the ramifications of what Palin was saying.
Or maybe it’s a clear statement that in her opinion, liberating 25 million people from tyranny is a task from God. Bush has invoked this reason, calling liberty a gift from our Creator. Further, this is pretty standard stuff among religious people, believing that God’s will is in everything. That’s why she prayed that there is a plan and that it’s God’s plan. It’s a prayer for success. You do want success in Iraq, don’t you Alt?
Not surprisingly, Altan has gotten it totally wrong again. Of course when you base your posts on the lateset edition of Obama’s Talking Points, you tend to set yourself up to be exposed as dishonest.
Fact is, Altan is omitting a very crucial part of what Palin said prior to his claim that she believes that the Iraq War is a task form God. You see, Palin started by asking the assembled to pray that what they were doing was a task from God. This shows that she does not automatically believe that God ordained the Iraq War, as Altan would try to have you believe, but that she is asking that we pray that we are acting, as that other right wing religious fundie, Abraham Lincoln, said in his 2nd Inaugeral Address, “With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in”.
When you view Palin’s remarks in full, you seee that this is the essential message that she is driving at, but Altan and his cohorts on the left can’t or won’t see it that way. Instead, they selectively pick out that which fits their narrative and then distort what she actually said into what they want people to think she said.
This is not change that you can believe in, this is Chicago machine politics at it’s worst.
Somehow, I think it’s a little sacriligeous to invoke “God” in the building of a pipeline. Kinda like asking God to help you with your curveball.
I don’t want to get into a religious conversation here comparing various people’s beliefs but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that under my church’s understanding of how things work. As long as you are planning on using your curve to play baseball rather than something like knocking out bank guards, at least.
< somewhat-tongue-in-cheek mode >
What conservative when seeing the government enact a liberal plan hasn’t prayed to God that somehow miraculously He would make it work better than it looks like it should and the liberal scheme wouldn’t actually cause the complete and utter collapse of the country?
For the few successes that liberalism has seen over the years, I could attribute them easily to that conservative prayer effect alone.
God grant Palin the wisdom to frame any statements she makes from hereon, judiciously.
Many at PL will yell “right on, amen, praise the Lord” to her speaking in tongues of fire. But to win the crucial middle, this battle will be played out with probing of all the candidates statements, including hers. With the Foxies, talk radio, and many internet forums, the righties will scrutinize all Obama/Biden rambles, much of the rest of the media will be waiting for Hurricane Sarah to give them a quote over which they can drum up outrage.
Will the McCain campaign let Sarah be Sarah? I am guessing that she would be both a blessing and a curse, but she is such a force now, that if the folks with the mark of McCain keep her too much under wraps, things will get wierd. She also may “overstate” when she is at flag-waving, “We love Palin” rallies, but be more appropriately judicious with the media which she knows has its knives barely concealed under their togas. Anyway, I think that she must come out and do some press conferences etc, sooner or later. I want to see how this prodigy deals with them.
The “God"thing is one of the third rails of politics. You can’t say that you don’t believe in God, but you also cannot be invoking Him/Her/It all the time. If she’s smart, and I think she is, not Microsoft smart, but community, smart, she will figure it out.
