It is a shame that this inquiry will be politicized by both sides and little will be gained beyond posturing and grandstanding.
Nonsense. The Bush Administration has been trying to win the war and protect the country. The Democrats are the ones who are trying to criminalize and politicize the Bush Administration’s sincere efforts to do their job. The Democrats are the ones who have been trying to undermine the campaign in Iraq as well as undermine other efforts in the War on Terror.
It is a shame that this inquiry will be politicized by both sides and little will be gained beyond posturing and grandstanding.
Nonsense. The Bush Administration has been trying to win the war and protect the country. The Democrats are the ones who are trying to criminalize and politicize the Bush Administration’s sincere efforts to do their job. The Democrats are the ones who have been trying to undermine the campaign in Iraq as well as undermine other efforts in the War on Terror.
You made my point far better than I did. that said, it was the remainder of my post that was what I most care about.
You made my point far better than I did. that said, it was the remainder of my post that was what I most care about.
No, I made MY point: which is valid and correct. Sometimes both sides are guilty, but not here. The Democrats have acted shamefully and un-patriotically over this stuff. You do NOT undermine a war while American soldiers are in the field. So go ahead and do the “I’m above the fray and both sides do it” crap if it makes you feel better about yourself. But it’s nonsense. The Democrats are dead wrong here.
Sorry Jim but if that justice system is good enough to convict our own soldiers and put them in prison it’s plenty good enough to put terrorists in the same prison.
I didn’t hear any objections to then putting our service people on trial.
By PAMELA HESS, Associated Press Writer
Posted on Yahoo News, 2 hours, 28 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The House Judiciary Committee voted Tuesday to compel a top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney to testify to the committee about the Bush administration’s interrogation practices.
David Addington, Cheney’s chief of staff, refused to testify without a subpoena. No date has been set for his appearance before Congress.
Addington is one of several lawyers believed to have played a key role in crafting the administration’s interrogation policies shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, policies which some say amounted to torture.
John Yoo, the former Justice Department lawyer who wrote a now-repudiated memo allowing the harsh interrogations of military prisoners agreed late Monday to testify to Congress about those practices, averting a subpoena. Yoo is now a law professor at University of California-Berkeley.
Yoo’s memo, dated March 14, 2003, outlines a legal justification for military interrogators to use harsh tactics against al-Qaida and Taliban detainees overseas — so long as they did not specifically intend to torture their captives.
Former Attorney General John Ashcroft, former Under Secretary of Defense Douglas Feith, and former Assistant Attorney General Daniel Levin have also agreed to give testimony at a future hearing. Former CIA Director George Tenet is still in negotiations with the committee, according to House Judiciary Committee spokeswoman Melanie Roussell.
The Judiciary Committee hearings are meant to determine what role administration lawyers played in creating and approving interrogation procedures that went far beyond those traditionally used by U.S. forces, and whether any of them violated their legal or ethical obligations, said Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich.
This is a very good start. If our country is ever to restore its good name, these criminals in the White House who advocated torture and other war crimes must be brought to full account by being disbarred and publicly shamed. And then those who hired these corrupt lawyers and acted on their advice—namely, Bush, Cheney, et al.—should be put on trial for their crimes, if not in the US then at The Hague.
Putting cotton panties on their heads rather than silk is a war crime worthy of Nuremburg. As long as these loons are pursuing this idiocy they can’t cause the US serious damage.
Only among the Luncatic Left has the US name been damaged and the resurgence of Conservatism in Europe shows just how inane and clueless our Left is.
“This is a very good start. If our country is ever to restore its good name, these criminals in the White House who advocated torture and other war crimes must be brought to full account by being disbarred and publicly shamed. And then those who hired these corrupt lawyers and acted on their advice—namely, Bush, Cheney, et al.—should be put on trial for their crimes, if not in the US then at The Hague.”
Good luck with that one “CHUMP”.
OUtside of the Hothouse Left, the Islamofascists and the Treason Media where have we lost our “good name”?
And who cares what they think?
So, you dont care what a Federal Court thinks? Depends on the court, your favorite is overturned the majority of the time on appeal. I certainly do NOT care what a Judge thinks about matters outside his jurisdiction. The Federal Courts are the treason media? Those judges appointed by Democrats are generally at one with the Treason Media in its Treason and lamebrainedness.
Are you teaching your children to pull the wings of flies and bees and stuff? Or may how to torture dogs, so they will get an early start? Only those dogs which deliberately bomb women and children and attack American soldiers. What a little deceptive whiner you are.
Good fvking grief, the public schools are doing an amazing job of developing stupidity to a major degree. Get help. You leftists lamebrains are generally suicidally protective of the Public schools. What happened or are you just floundering about for an insult? At any rate my learning and intelligence dwarfs yours unless these stupid comments are an aberration.
On the odd chance you ever write anything coherent, can you possibly provide links to the articles you quote? I showed you how to do that when you first started posting here, apparently to no avail.
And, for God’s sake, the WWII trial city is spelled N-U-R-E-M-B-E-R-G.
Sometimes I get in a bit of a rush and hit keys wrong etc.
The articiles I posted are clearly marked except #5 I beleive, thats form Yoo Torture Memos, there are many of them, google search.
Jim I don’t care about spelling that’s Altans thing,I commit enough sins of my own to cast stones.
But as to my adopted country’s good name. How can you even bring that canard up? When you have Germany,France ,Italy,Poland and so on all with pro American governments and political leaders that ran on pro U.S. platforms and won big. As for the rest of them “WHO GIVES A CRAP”!!
They didn’t like us before and nothing has changed as a matter of fact you have countries that had an anti American attitude go the other way. So much for that nonsense,My country is still on of the most respected and generous countries on the planet.What Country are you from??
I was born in 1936, in the Sooner State, Ok. I have been a citizen all my life, I am a vet and yes, I for one am ashamed, not of america, however our current crop of leaders are a boil on the butt of the human race, the nazi party was all so, being a war child and all, I have more than a slight amount of what HONOR is and I can tell you right flat out, our leadership has no honor.
Honor is unkown in Washington, D.C. at this time. I do hope it changes, tho I am more than somewhat doubtful.
Now John, I know you are not a big fan of attys.
Read it anyway, you might learn something.
Discuss this story Print This Post E-Mail This Article
Published on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 by Associated Press
Judge Lamentably Dismisses Lawsuit Against Rumsfeld
by Matt Apuzzo
WASHINGTON — Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as “lamentable.”
U.S. District Judge Thomas F. Hogan threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. He said Rumsfeld cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.
The lawsuit contends the prisoners were beaten, suspended upside down from the ceiling by chains, urinated on, shocked, sexually humiliated, burned, locked inside boxes and subjected to mock executions.
Lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union and Human Rights First had argued that Rumsfeld and top military officials disregarded warnings about the abuse and authorized the use of illegal interrogation tactics that violated the constitutional and human rights of prisoners.
Hogan appeared conflicted during arguments last year. On one hand, he said he was hesitant to allow allegations of torture to go unheard. On the other hand, he said the case was unprecedented.
“This is a lamentable case,” Hogan began his 58-page opinion Tuesday.
No matter how appealing it might seem to use the courts to correct allegations of severe abuses of power, Hogan wrote, government officials are immune from such lawsuits. Additionally, foreigners held overseas are not normally afforded U.S. constitutional rights.
“Despite the horrifying torture allegations,” Hogan said, he could find no case law supporting the lawsuit, which he previously had described as unprecedented.
Allowing the case to go forward, Hogan said in December, might subject government officials to all sorts of political lawsuits. Even Osama bin Laden could sue, Hogan said, claiming two American presidents threatened to have him murdered.
“There is no getting around the fact that authorizing monetary damages remedies against military officials engaged in an active war would invite enemies to use our own federal courts to obstruct the Armed Forces’ ability to act decisively and without hesitation,” Hogan wrote Tuesday.
Had the Rumsfeld lawsuit been allowed to go forward, attorneys for the ACLU might have been able to force the Pentagon to disclose what officials knew about abuses such as those at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and what was done to stop it.
“The court ruled that innocent civilians tortured by the United States cannot seek recourse in the federal courts to hold responsible U.S. officials legally liable,” said ACLU attorney Lucas Guttentag. “We believe that the law and Constitution require more, and that the former secretary of defense must be held accountable for his policies that led to this abuse.”
The Justice Department had no immediate comment.
Hogan also dismissed the charges against other officials named in the lawsuit: retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, former Brig. Gen. Janis L. Karpinski and Col. Thomas M. Pappas.
Karpinski, whose Army Reserve unit was in charge of the Abu Ghraib prison, was demoted and is the highest-ranking officer punished in the scandal. Sanchez, who commanded U.S. forces in Iraq, retired from the Army and said his career was a casualty of the prison scandal
DOES THIS MAKE YOU PROUD OF RUMSFELD, ETC? THIS IS HONOR ?
Its war crimes and with luck, they will get what they deserve, and that might being to restore the good name of this great land. I will not say nation, that would imply that I approve of their nazi type behavior.
You don’t have to like it and I dam sure do not.
I am 100 per cent against torture.
Now, if your want to talk about turning some of those splendid places in glass ash trays, I am open minded about that, not about torture.
This is a lamentable case,” Hogan began his 58-page opinion Tuesday.
Hmm, seems to me after reading his decision, that he is lamenting that American fools like the ACLU would even try to bring the case. Don’t disagree with him there. I, too, think it is lamentable that idiots like that, who would undermine our government in a mindless self-aggrandizement venture, have access to the courts.
No, what makes me proud is his recognition that we are in an active war, the best interests of the country, and the threat that such cases poses to the troops in the field:
“Allowing the case to go forward, Hogan said in December, might subject government officials to all sorts of political lawsuits. Even Osama bin Laden could sue, Hogan said, claiming two American presidents threatened to have him murdered.
“There is no getting around the fact that authorizing monetary damages remedies against military officials engaged in an active war would invite enemies to use our own federal courts to obstruct the Armed Forces’ ability to act decisively and without hesitation,” Hogan wrote Tuesday.”
Colonel : “Captain, I want you to take that village.”
Captain : “Uhhh, Colonel, to take that village I would first have to shell it and then I’d have to move my men through this field where the crops are growing. The villagers would sue me for damages done to their buildings and for the loss of their crops. Colonel, I can’t afford to take that village. Isn’t there something we can do that won’t cause any damage?”
Colonel : “Captain, I want you to take that village.”
Captain : “Uhhh, Colonel, to take that village I would first have to shell it and then I’d have to move my men through this field where the crops are growing. The villagers would sue me for damages done to their buildings and for the loss of their crops. Colonel, I can’t afford to take that village. Isn’t there something we can do that won’t cause any damage?”
Why now that Rumsfeld has resigned?
International courts have traditionally respected a general international law that national leaders are granted full immunity from international criminal jurisdiction throughout the duration of their time in office. According to the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, “the purpose of such privileges and immunities is not to benefit individuals but to ensure the efficient performance of the functions of diplomatic missions as representing States.” But immunity has not been equated with exemption from all future prosecution and/or punishment.
According to the United Nations’ International Court of Justice, after a government official leaves office, he or she no longer enjoys all of the immunities accorded by international law in other countries. So, provided that it has jurisdiction under international law, a court of one country may try a former official of another country for acts committed before or after his or her term of office. However, the U.S. withdrew from the UN court in 1986, and currently accepts the court’s jurisdiction only on a case-to-case basis.
Why is a U.S. organization suing U.S. officials… in a German court?
There is no international law that gives officials immunity inside their home countries. And out of respect for national sovereignty, controversial executive actions are usually left to be judged by the justice systems inside a leader’s home country. But Rumsfeld’s prosecutors say the U.S. cannot be expected to provide justice after Congress’ recent passage of a law that grants American officials retroactive immunity from prosecution for war crimes. They complain that no international courts or criminal tribunals in Iraq were allowed to conduct investigations of U.S. officials. And they say that because the U.S. has refused to join the International Criminal Court, the option of pursuing prosecution in international courts has been ruled out. So Germany is their best option.
“This is a very good start. If our country is ever to restore its good name, these criminals in the White House who advocated torture and other war crimes must be brought to full account by being disbarred and publicly shamed. And then those who hired these corrupt lawyers and acted on their advice—namely, Bush, Cheney, et al.—should be put on trial for their crimes, if not in the US then at The Hague.”
Good luck with that one “CHUMP”.
OUtside of the Hothouse Left, the Islamofascists and the Treason Media where have we lost our “good name”?
And who cares what they think?
So, you dont care what a Federal Court thinks? Depends on the court, your favorite is overturned the majority of the time on appeal. I certainly do NOT care what a Judge thinks about matters outside his jurisdiction. The Federal Courts are the treason media? Those judges appointed by Democrats are generally at one with the Treason Media in its Treason and lamebrainedness.
Are you teaching your children to pull the wings of flies and bees and stuff? Or may how to torture dogs, so they will get an early start? Only those dogs which deliberately bomb women and children and attack American soldiers. What a little deceptive whiner you are.
Good fvking grief, the public schools are doing an amazing job of developing stupidity to a major degree. Get help. You leftists lamebrains are generally suicidally protective of the Public schools. What happened or are you just floundering about for an insult? At any rate my learning and intelligence dwarfs yours unless these stupid comments are an aberration.
People who support torture, at least the ones on this thread have no shame, so insulting them is not possibile, they for the most part are an insult to the human race, all on their own, with no help needed from others. I despised the stench of Nazis during World War two and I still do.
Judcar, I failed to post the Lamentable bit properly, so here you are:
This is a lamentable case,” Hogan began his 58-page opinion Tuesday.
No matter how appealing it might seem to use the courts to correct allegations of severe abuses of power, Hogan wrote, government officials are immune from such lawsuits. Additionally, foreigners held overseas are not normally afforded U.S. constitutional rights.
WHAT HE DID NOT STATE IS THAT THEY ARE IMMUNE UNTIL THEY LEAVE GOVT. SERVICE, SO I THINK HE MADE A MISTAKE. maybe not.
“Despite the horrifying torture allegations,” Hogan said, he could find no case law supporting the lawsuit, which he previously had described as unprecedented.
DESPITE THE HORRIFYING TORTURE ALLEGATIONS.
That does not sound like to me that good old Judge Hogan was impressed favorably with the behavior of herr rumsfeld.
So it may very well be that like Good Old Pinichoet from Chile, he may yet find himself answering questions in some court, somewhere at sometime. It ain’t over till the fat lady sings, and I am not convinced that she has even run her scales as yet.
These people torturing detainees are thugs, any way you cut it.
judcar, do you honestly approve of torture? You have read DOD autopsys reports where an 18 year old was mostly dark green bruise, death by blunt force, and I know they exsist, I posted them myself, death by strangulation, etc.
Having stooped to that barbaric level of behavior, is it not time to behave as a responsibile nation and try war criminals, as international law calls for, despite the fact that we pulled out of that treaty, I read, and its a case by case basis?
I do think Judge Hogan did make a mistake in NOT Trying these people and am inclined to think that he was pressured to NOT TRY these war criminals. We shall see what happens in 09, I suspect things are far from over at this point.
Colonel : “Captain, I want you to take that village.”
Captain : “Uhhh, Colonel, to take that village I would first have to shell it and then I’d have to move my men through this field where the crops are growing. The villagers would sue me for damages done to their buildings and for the loss of their crops. Colonel, I can’t afford to take that village. Isn’t there something we can do that won’t cause any damage?”
Why now that Rumsfeld has resigned?
International courts have traditionally respected a general international law that national leaders are granted full immunity from international criminal jurisdiction throughout the duration of their time in office. According to the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, “the purpose of such privileges and immunities is not to benefit individuals but to ensure the efficient performance of the functions of diplomatic missions as representing States.” But immunity has not been equated with exemption from all future prosecution and/or punishment.
According to the United Nations’ International Court of Justice, after a government official leaves office, he or she no longer enjoys all of the immunities accorded by international law in other countries. So, provided that it has jurisdiction under international law, a court of one country may try a former official of another country for acts committed before or after his or her term of office. However, the U.S. withdrew from the UN court in 1986, and currently accepts the court’s jurisdiction only on a case-to-case basis.
Why is a U.S. organization suing U.S. officials… in a German court?
There is no international law that gives officials immunity inside their home countries. And out of respect for national sovereignty, controversial executive actions are usually left to be judged by the justice systems inside a leader’s home country. But Rumsfeld’s prosecutors say the U.S. cannot be expected to provide justice after Congress’ recent passage of a law that grants American officials retroactive immunity from prosecution for war crimes. They complain that no international courts or criminal tribunals in Iraq were allowed to conduct investigations of U.S. officials. And they say that because the U.S. has refused to join the International Criminal Court, the option of pursuing prosecution in international courts has been ruled out. So Germany is their best option.
“This is a very good start. If our country is ever to restore its good name, these criminals in the White House who advocated torture and other war crimes must be brought to full account by being disbarred and publicly shamed. And then those who hired these corrupt lawyers and acted on their advice—namely, Bush, Cheney, et al.—should be put on trial for their crimes, if not in the US then at The Hague.”
Good luck with that one “CHUMP”.
OUtside of the Hothouse Left, the Islamofascists and the Treason Media where have we lost our “good name”?
And who cares what they think?
So, you dont care what a Federal Court thinks? Depends on the court, your favorite is overturned the majority of the time on appeal. I certainly do NOT care what a Judge thinks about matters outside his jurisdiction. The Federal Courts are the treason media? Those judges appointed by Democrats are generally at one with the Treason Media in its Treason and lamebrainedness.
Are you teaching your children to pull the wings of flies and bees and stuff? Or may how to torture dogs, so they will get an early start? Only those dogs which deliberately bomb women and children and attack American soldiers. What a little deceptive whiner you are.
Good fvking grief, the public schools are doing an amazing job of developing stupidity to a major degree. Get help. You leftists lamebrains are generally suicidally protective of the Public schools. What happened or are you just floundering about for an insult? At any rate my learning and intelligence dwarfs yours unless these stupid comments are an aberration.
People who support torture, at least the ones on this thread have no shame, so insulting them is not possibile, they for the most part are an insult to the human race, all on their own, with no help needed from others. I despised the stench of Nazis during World War two and I still do.
Since there is little true torture being carried out under US auspices that is all rather irrelevant. But torture is only another process which may sometimes be necessary to use in particular situations. It is no big deal now in spite of the Treason media’s attempt to make it so. Compared to blowing an enemy to pieces torture is a blessing since they do not survive the former. All this crap just more distractions from winning a war we must win for which we can thank the Party of Treason.
