Even if someone were tried and convicted for the death of someone under interrorgation, it would be a long reach to convict all those in the thread title of such a crime unless there were specific orders/documentation/recordings etc directing actions to that extent.
A death due to unknown health issues by the prisoner or even direct action during the procedure is a long reach away from what this post is trying to say for legal liability.
What’s funny is that the best they can do is find these isolated incidents of abuse, then try to tie them to the Administration by saying “Rumsfeld authorized environmental manipulation.” It’s a non-sequitur which most intelligent people see right away. Simply because certain uncomfortable techniques were authorized (such as hot and cold, loud music, long periods of standing) doesn’t mean that beating prisoners to death was authorized. The numbers tell the tale. Out of tens of thousands of detainees, they can only find 44 deaths. And they don’t even say whether or not all of these deaths are attributable to U.S. guards. In case bitwize and his cohorts are ignorant of this fact, people who go to prison tend to be bad. Many are killers. As a result, people kill each other in prison fairly regularly. But reasonable thinking, not mouth-breathing hatred of Bush, drives this analysis, so why am I bothering?
What a hysterical loon.
First of all, the detainees are NOT covered by the Geneva Convention. Maybe you should go read it.
Secondly, the Red Cross regularly inspects Gitmo. Not sure about the camps in Iraq under US control. Probably not because they are scared to come, not because they aren’t welcome.
The fact is, no other nation on earth treats captured enemies as well as does the U.S.
Out of tens of thousands of detainees, they can only find 44 deaths.
PLEASE POST THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF DEATHS BEFORE MURDERS OF DETAINEES IS CONSIDERED A WAR CRIME, OR CRIMES?
And where are these tens of thousands of detainees held? By Whom?
Under what authority? Who built the prison camps? What nation guards them? As detainees are they accorded rights under the Geneva Convention? What is the nations purpose in holding detainees around the world? Why is this information not released to congress and the americian public?
What type of info has been released about the detainees? Is it possibile these are in fact death camps? On the order of the death camps during world war two in Germany?
These matters need to be made public, by the people who authorized these actatives and the people in positions of power need to stand and make clear their positions and who authorized same.
I
This is a US torture camp
Evidence of prisoner abuse at Guantánamo is overwhelming - and it hasn’t made anyone safer.
Vikram Dodd
All Vikram Dodd articles
About Webfeeds January 12, 2007 12:00 PM | Printable version
It would be the ideal spot for a beachside birthday party. Surrounded by a turquoise sea, palm trees and white sand, the US detention camp at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba was five years old yesterday. Tony Blair calls it an “anomaly”, but the evidence is overwhelming. Camp Delta, which still houses 470 men never convicted of any crime, is a torture camp. That should be the starting point of any debate about what is acceptable in the west’s fight with Islamist extremists. More than 750 men have passed through the camp, with nearly half being released. Many prisoners, past and present, have given consistent and repeated testimony of serious abuses and ill treatment. There is also significant evidence from US officials and government documents of widespread abuse at the camp.
The British detainees known as the Tipton Three allege they were repeatedly beaten, shackled in painful positions for long periods and subjected to sleep deprivation. They were also subjected to strobe lighting, loud music and extremes of hot and cold - all meant to break them psychologically. Other detainees have suffered beatings, sexual assaults and death threats. At least one man has been “water boarded” - tied to a board and placed under water so that he had the sensation of drowning.
According to the Red Cross, the regime at Guantánamo causes psychological suffering that has driven inmates mad, with scores of suicide attempts and three inmates killing themselves last year.
Even US officials are shocked. Last week FBI documents revealed that an inmate’s head had been wrapped in tape for quoting from the Qur’an. Another was humiliated for his religious beliefs and “baptised” by a soldier posing as a Catholic priest. The documents show FBI agents saw 26 instances of abuse in their time at Guantánamo. The FBI is highly sceptical about alleged confessions gained by its military colleagues. A May 2004 FBI memo branded intelligence gained from “special techniques” as “suspect at best”. Indeed, one of the Tipton Three confessed to being in a video shot at an Afghan terror camp alongside Osama bin Laden - in fact, at the time he was working in an electronics store in the Midlands.
But the US should not shoulder all the blame. Some of the material from Guantánamo has been used by Britain’s counter-terrorism agencies. In June 2003 Tony Blair told the Commons: “Information is still coming from people detained there ... That information is important.” George Bush, his aides and the US military define what they have been doing as a special programme using special measures: their position appears to be that as long as blood is not drawn, it is not torture.
One official investigation found an inmate had been sexually humiliated and forced to perform dog tricks on a leash. It said the conduct was “abusive and degrading” but not torture. In a UK court hearing over Guantánamo, a senior British judge, Mr Justice Collins, declared: “America’s idea of what is torture is not the same as ours.” A UN report has confirmed evidence of torture, and Amnesty International has declared Guantánamo “the gulag of our time”. Guantánamo is not the only US torture camp. Bagram in Afghanistan has been dogged by stories of abuse, and there are secret US prisons around the world where it is widely feared new horrors are occuring.
Hard Evidence of U.S. Torturing Prisoners to Death Ignored by Corporate Media
by Peter Phillips
Military autopsy reports provide indisputable proof that detainees are being tortured to death while in US military custody. Yet the US corporate media are covering it with the seriousness of a garage sale for the local Baptist Church.
A recent American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) posting of one of forty-four US military autopsy reports reads as follows: “Final Autopsy Report: DOD 003164, (Detainee) Died as a result of asphyxia (lack of oxygen to the brain) due to strangulation as evidenced by the recently fractured hyoid bone in the neck and soft tissue hemorrhage extending downward to the level of the right thyroid cartilage. Autopsy revealed bone fracture, rib fractures, contusions in mid abdomen, back and buttocks extending to the left flank, abrasions, lateral buttocks. Contusions, back of legs and knees; abrasions on knees, left fingers and encircling to left wrist. Lacerations and superficial cuts, right 4th and 5th fingers. Also, blunt force injuries, predominately recent contusions (bruises) on the torso and lower extremities. Abrasions on left wrist are consistent with use of restraints. No evidence of defense injuries or natural disease. Manner of death is homicide. Whitehorse Detainment Facility, Nasiriyah, Iraq.”
The ACLU website further reveals how: “a 27-year-old Iraqi male died while being interrogated by Navy Seals on April 5, 2004, in Mosul, Iraq. During his confinement he was hooded, flex-cuffed, sleep deprived and subjected to hot and cold environmental conditions, including the use of cold water on his body and hood. The exact cause of death was “undetermined” although the autopsy stated that hypothermia may have contributed to his death.
Another Iraqi detainee died on January 9, 2004, in Al Asad, Iraq, while being interrogated. He was standing, shackled to the top of a doorframe with a gag in his mouth, at the time he died. The cause of death was asphyxia and blunt force injuries.
So read several of the 44 US military autopsy reports on the ACLU website -evidence of extensive abuse of US detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan 2002 through 2004. Anthony Romero, Executive Director of ACLU stated, “There is no question that US interrogations have resulted in deaths.” ACLU attorney Amrit Sing adds, “These documents present irrefutable evidence that US operatives tortured detainees to death during interrogations.”
Additionally, ACLU reports that in April 2003, Secretary Rumsfeld authorized the use of “environmental manipulation” as an interrogation technique in Guantánamo Bay. In September 2003, Lt. Gen. Sanchez also authorized this technique for use in Iraq. So responsibility for these human atrocities goes directly to the highest levels of power.
A press release on these deaths by torture was issued by the ACLU on October 25, 2005 and was immediately picked up by Associated Press and United Press International wire services, making the story available to US corporate media nationwide. A thorough check of Nexus-Lexus and Proquest electronic data bases, using the keywords ACLU and autopsy, showed that at least 95percent of the daily papers in the US didn’t bother to pick up the story. The Los Angeles Times covered the story on page A-4 with a 635-word report headlined “Autopsies Support Abuse Allegations.” Fewer than a dozen other daily newspapers including: Bangor Daily News, Maine, page 8; Telegraph-Herald, Dubuque Iowa, page 6; Charleston Gazette, page 5; Advocate, Baton Rouge, page 11; and a half dozen others actually covered the story. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Seattle Times buried the story inside general Iraq news articles. USA Today posted the story on their website. MSNBC posted the story to their website, but apparently did not consider it newsworthy enough to air on television.
So whether you like the post or not, frankly I loath and detest this crap being done in the name of freedom, and this is just in one camp? GITMO, and how many of these camps are there? Good luck getting an honest answer from D.C>
The question still unanswered is still unaswered as to how many deaths, by torture etc does it take to be war crimes, you tell me, according to the story, if I recall correctly there were 44 deaths here that were looked into, what was done, its not been said.
That kind of behavior has been callled war crimes since the end of WW 2, as well it should.
No american can or should be proud of this kind of garbage, I am not, I am all so angry as hell at the so called leaders that would authorize this kind of heinious behavior. The deserve to be tried as war criminals, as far as I am concerned.
Lawyers lobby House Speaker, members to overhaul military commissions bill
By Roxana Tiron
Posted: 04/30/07 08:24 PM [ET]
Scores of lawyers representing detainees at the military prison in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, are descending on Capitol Hill today to lobby House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and various congressional offices to overhaul GOP legislation governing military tribunals.
About 70 attorneys from some of the country’s largest law firms, sole practitioners and public defenders are reaching out to Congress on National Law Day to press lawmakers to restore the writ of habeas corpus — the right of detainees to challenge the legality of their detention in court.
Congress in 1961 designated May 1 as National Law Day to celebrate the United States’ commitment to justice and the rule of law. The attorneys who aim to hold more than 50 meetings on the Hill today say such tradition has been tarnished by Congress’s September 2006 vote to deny habeas corpus to hundreds of detainees held in Guantánamo Bay for more than five years.
Habeas corpus is a concept that dates to the Magna Carta, and is a fundamental right of the U.S. legal system. It gives any person held by the government the means to go before a court for a fair determination of whether there is a reasonable basis for detention.
The lobbying comes as the Pentagon tries to limit access of lawyers at Guantánamo Bay. Also, the Supreme Court yesterday refused to hear the case of two prisoners who aim to challenge the legality of military commissions.
The Supreme Court decided on April 2 not to review the issue of whether prisoners could challenge their confinement in federal court.
The lawyers’ approach today is part of a larger effort that includes a whole range of organizations, from law offices to human rights and civil liberties groups. A briefing with congressional staff is also scheduled for today. The Center for Constitutional Rights and the lawyers representing detainees organized the visits.
The delegation on Capitol Hill marks an intensifying push to overhaul the 2006 Military Commissions Act and restore habeas corpus rights as the House and Senate armed services committees take up the 2008 defense authorization bill. The defense authorization bill is being targeted as the vehicle to carry the changes.
Both Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Mo.) and Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), the chairmen of the armed services panels, recently held hearings on the Military Commissions Act and legal issues regarding military detainees.
The House Armed Services panel is starting its subcommittee markups this week. The full committee markup is May 9. Skelton may be open to revisiting the issue, but is still considering it carefully and is gauging his committee members’ support. Levin has expressed concerns about gathering sufficient votes in his committee to make the changes, according to a source.
It is not yet clear how much Congress will change in the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and how soon those changes will be addressed. So far, the issue at the forefront is restoring habeas corpus rights, but some experts in the human-rights arena insist that a change in the definition of “enemy combatant” should go hand in hand with restoring habeas corpus.
Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), a 2008 presidential hopeful, in February introduced a bill called Restoring the Constitution Act of 2007, which aims to restore habeas corpus rights, bar evidence gained through torture or coercion and reinstate U.S. adherence to the Geneva Conventions in order to protect the nation’s military personnel abroad.
The bill is sponsored by Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), chairman of the Judiciary Committee; Russ Feingold (D-Wis.); and Robert Menendez (D-N.J.).
Leahy, together with Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), the Democrats’ strongest ally on restoring habeas corpus, also introduced the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act of 2007. The bill’s cosponsors include Dodd; Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.), the 2008 Democratic frontrunner; Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.); and Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.).
Leahy last week testified before the Armed Services Committee on the legal issues regarding detainees and said that he plans to hold a hearing as part of his committee.
In the House, Reps. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) introduced companion legislation to the Dodd and Leahy bills. Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, welcomed the legislation. His panel has jurisdiction over the Habeas Corpus issue.
Skelton has said repeatedly that the Military Commissions Act is flawed and cannot withstand constitutional scrutiny. Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), chairman of the defense appropriations subcommittee, is another stalwart supporter of restoring habeas corpus. He has the ear of Speaker Pelosi. Murtha is in favor of closing Guantánamo Bay.
The meeting today is scheduled for 1 p.m. at the Speaker’s Office with Pelosi’s staff.
Some of the biggest law firms in the country will be represented, including Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman, Dorsey & Whitney, Shearman & Sterling, Mayer Brown Rowe & Maw, Jenner & Block, Paul Weiss and Debevoise & Plimpton
Illegal enemy combatants are not covered under the Geneva but more importantly most sane Americans don’t care what happens to these thugs after they are captured.
Illegal enemy combatants are not covered under the Geneva but more importantly most sane Americans don’t care what happens to these thugs after they are captured.
I for one am so glad that most americans are insane, aren’t you?
Thats why so many americans are against bush, I betcha.
Does Magna Carter or constitution or bill of rights or any of that ring any bells for you?
If not, its pointless to point out that pretty much all that “stuff” as regarding human rights and we are americans are part of the human race, tho after bush the rest of the homo sapiens may very well deicde to push us out into the wilderness, sad as it may be, but are you aware that you no longer have the right to a speedy trial? That you can be picked, some vague charge, bond not allowed, and be held in JAIL FOR YEARS, even life and there is not one thing you can do, except bitch?
Military Act, of 2006, which has still not been repealed to this point. And Sen. Chris Dodd, Ct. is against that as are many onther people, and its still the law. Voted on by our elected idiots in both house and senate, approved by a huge majority, and at this point in time it is still the law?
Bitwize has a pretty basic approach: state something inflammatory and then offer zero support. The fact that this is old, old ground is of no consequence to bitwise, he just wants to fight and if its a fight about old news, oh well. This simply supports my thesis that the left is in retreat. Again, notice that he says NOTHING about current events. so this act is both tired and trite. Scale of one to ten with ten being valid, interesting and current, gotta give the bitboy 1.
Now Pop’s style is pretty dynamic. It works like this. He’ll make a statement like “Bush is building huge concentration camps in the southwestern desert and all his jack booted thugs will round us up and ship us to those camps in box cars”.
Should someone respond by asking for proof old jim will simply say “Well then, it seems that you are in favor of shipping innocent americans to concentration camps in the desert!”
Even the very, very patient oscar77 has finally started pointing out pop’s folly. Same scale, jim gets a two. At least his rants are imaginiative.
Skipsailing, just so you know, your name shows up, your B.S. does not, you are on ignore and your garbage is not worth my time, thats why I put you on ignore and why you will stay there, because you have nothing to offer that holds any interest to me, so post away, rant, rave, call me what ever names you wish, I do not give a hoot, your just another sub human with no brains. Now have a nice day, you heah?
It is a war crime to violate the Geneva conventions, or to order such violation, or to knowingly fail to put a stop to such violation, including the use of torture which was ordered by top administration officials and performed at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.
Oh, and violating 18 USC 2441 carries a maximum death sentence if someone is tortured to death—which has happened.
It is a war crime to violate the Geneva conventions, or to order such violation, or to knowingly fail to put a stop to such violation, including the use of torture which was ordered by top administration officials and performed at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.
Oh, and violating 18 USC 2441 carries a maximum death sentence if someone is tortured to death—which has happened.
It is a war crime to violate the Geneva conventions, or to order such violation, or to knowingly fail to put a stop to such violation, including the use of torture which was ordered by top administration officials and performed at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.
Oh, and violating 18 USC 2441 carries a maximum death sentence if someone is tortured to death—which has happened.
Illegal enemy combatants are not covered under the Geneva but more importantly most sane Americans don’t care what happens to these thugs after they are captured.
I for one am so glad that most americans are insane, aren’t you?
Thats why so many americans are against bush, I betcha.
Does Magna Carter or constitution or bill of rights or any of that ring any bells for you?
If not, its pointless to point out that pretty much all that “stuff” as regarding human rights and we are americans are part of the human race, tho after bush the rest of the homo sapiens may very well deicde to push us out into the wilderness, sad as it may be, but are you aware that you no longer have the right to a speedy trial? That you can be picked, some vague charge, bond not allowed, and be held in JAIL FOR YEARS, even life and there is not one thing you can do, except bitch?
Military Act, of 2006, which has still not been repealed to this point. And Sen. Chris Dodd, Ct. is against that as are many onther people, and its still the law. Voted on by our elected idiots in both house and senate, approved by a huge majority, and at this point in time it is still the law?
This is not my specialty but the MAGNA CARTA is a British document that does not have any position in this country. As for the Constitution and the Bill of rights ends at our borders.
It’s a detail but we can’t take it out of country and enforce it.They happen to be in Cuba not on our soil.It’s a a s small detail but it has held up for a few years now and seems to be a thorn in your side that’s going to stay just where it is.
And stop being so generous with our rights as U.S.citizens. Don’t give them to criminals from foreign countries being held in foreign countries.
And once again the Geneva convention does not apply to OBL and his thugs of UNUNIFORMED CRIMINALS.
