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the cost of other goods and services will rise because they’ll have to be paid better wages and businesses will pass the cost on to us.
So, it’s going to cost us one way or another.
There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Ever.

Americans hiring Americans.  Outstanding.

SGRC i don’t know what state you live in but i can tell you that there are Illegal Mexicans as far north as Montreal Canada. I have relatives there and they are seeing more than a few turning up.

Most of what you all are talking about can only come about through the passage of a comprehensive immigration reform package.
We had that chance this spring/summer and “killed the bill.”
We may have the chance to do so again under a Republican president, but I’m beginning to wonder if we ever will pass such a bill as no bill that I can conceive of will ever be able to make all of you happy and the “yeah but” objections will kill it every time.
I can’t foresee a bill that would be based on the assumptions you make as a point of departure and fulfill all the numerous requirements you’ve set down for it.
Only if a majority of Americans together can gather the political will to do will this ever come to pass.
Until then, we’re stuck with de facto amnesty for them and complaining by some of us.

JentheNeoCon - 25 December 2007 07:29 PM

Most of what you all are talking about can only come about through the passage of a comprehensive immigration reform package.
We had that chance this spring/summer and “killed the bill.”
We may have the chance to do so again under a Republican president, but I’m beginning to wonder if we ever will pass such a bill as no bill that I can conceive of will ever be able to make all of you happy and the “yeah but” objections will kill it every time.
I can’t foresee a bill that would be based on the assumptions you make as a point of departure and fulfill all the numerous requirements you’ve set down for it.
Only if a majority of Americans together can gather the political will to do will this ever come to pass.
Until then, we’re stuck with de facto amnesty for them and complaining by some of us.

Well said!!

JentheNeoCon - 25 December 2007 07:29 PM

Most of what you all are talking about can only come about through the passage of a comprehensive immigration reform package.
We had that chance this spring/summer and “killed the bill.”
We may have the chance to do so again under a Republican president, but I’m beginning to wonder if we ever will pass such a bill as no bill that I can conceive of will ever be able to make all of you happy and the “yeah but” objections will kill it every time.
I can’t foresee a bill that would be based on the assumptions you make as a point of departure and fulfill all the numerous requirements you’ve set down for it.
Only if a majority of Americans together can gather the political will to do will this ever come to pass.
Until then, we’re stuck with de facto amnesty for them and complaining by some of us.

77% of the American people oppose amnesty: 89% Republican and 65% Democrat.  We shut down the Senate’s phone system last summer with our protests and jammed their fax machines for days.  Few politicians want to touch it in this election year, but they’re getting slammed over it on the campaign trail.  Why do you think Huckabee went from “all God’s children” last week and “back to the end of the line” now?

Illegal immigration has become the second-most important issue to voters in Iowa, now surpassing both terrorism and Iraq.  It is in third place in New Hampshire, below terrorism, but above Iraq.  Pundits are increasingly predicting that the economy and illegal immigration will be the two top issues in next year’s general election.  That’s not “some” of the people, Jen, that’s a large chunk of the electorate.

john florida - 25 December 2007 02:41 PM

SGRC i don’t know what state you live in but i can tell you that there are Illegal Mexicans as far north as Montreal Canada. I have relatives there and they are seeing more than a few turning up.

Because of the growing hostile political climate, many illegal aliens in northern states are taking advantage of Canada’s refugee laws and moving across the border.  The government is upset about it because refugees are entitled to a whole basketful of goodies from the welfare state, and the illegal aliens are applying for them in large numbers.

luthien, just because you’ve gotten them talking about it on the campaign trail doesn’t mean squat.
As you pointed out about Huckleberry, the ones who want to win will tell the voters what they want to hear.
Depending on who wins the White House, you may or may not see him or her get another immigration reform package to Congress.
And again, I foresee that due to the attitude of the noisy anti-immigrant Right Wingers like you, whatever’s proposed won’t meet with your satisfaction and will get killed again--you’ll shut down the phones and brag about it because it will “sound like amnesty” to you again or some other nonsense.
President Bush’s bill never was amnesty.
He said as much, too--several times.
But you were all screaming too much to listen and read it.

john florida - 25 December 2007 02:41 PM

SGRC i don’t know what state you live in but i can tell you that there are Illegal Mexicans as far north as Montreal Canada. I have relatives there and they are seeing more than a few turning up.

And MORE ...

Are showing up every day in Canada because they are leaving America in droves for the more illegal alien-tolerant great white north.  Canada’s socialist approach to the ills of its residents is well-equipped to care for them.

<chuckle>

Jen what do the words “pathway to citizenship” Mean to you?

JentheNeoCon - 26 December 2007 09:27 AM

President Bush’s bill never was amnesty.
He said as much, too--several times.

Just because Bush said it wasn’t amnesty doesn’t make it so.  The American people determine the terms of debate in this country, not our elected officials. 
amnesty:
1. a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction. 
2. Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole. 
3. a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense. 
4. to grant amnesty to; pardon. 
(dictionary.com)

I would have been willing to compromise on amnesty, Jen, if our ruling elite had not been so insufferably self-righteous and offensive.  I would have been more flexible if those seeking my goodwill had been less arrogant in their demands for their “rights” as illegal aliens.  However, I saw no willingness to reasonably debate or compromise on the issue from the other side, so why should I be the only one making concessions?

Congress is full of men and women whose main purpose in office is to remain there; their primary interests are votes and campaign contributions.  On the issue of illegal aliens, they salivate over all those Hispanic votes and big business dollars.  They have not enforced the current laws on illegal immigration, so why would I believe they really, truly, promise to do so this time?  Maybe you trust Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and George Voinovich’s word that the sticks will be equally applied with the carrots of comprehensive immigration, but I don’t.  Fool me once…

Luthien they need to pass a new law because of the quota system in the old law. The can’t do what they want because they are in violation of the original law. Not to mention all the back ground checks and health checks are not done.

Grandfathering in anybody who couldn’t have a background check processed within 6 months, was blatant amnesty.

Look how long it took them to prepare to plan to build a fence.

Yell what fence??This president has failed us on Immigration.

john florida - 26 December 2007 10:13 AM

Luthien they need to pass a new law because of the quota system in the old law. The can’t do what they want because they are in violation of the original law. Not to mention all the back ground checks and health checks are not done.

If I have to choose between current law and McCain-Kennedy, I’ll stick with the old one, John, warts and all.

john florida - 26 December 2007 11:10 AM

Yell what fence??This president has failed us on Immigration.

He didn’t fail you!
He tried to get comprehensive immigration reform passed and you call that a “failure?”
What’s he supposed to do? Order it as a fiat from above like Chavez or Castro?