Here’s another story from USA Today that says the same thing:
“People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors — they’re moving back to Mexico,†said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. “They don’t want to live in fear, in terror.â€
The Catholic Church and their “sanctuary movement” has done as much to damage America as anything else. Hell, directly across from Arizona State University (University Drive) in Tempe (next door to Mesa) is the Newman Center where they have harbored illegals for decades. Everyone knows it, but is afraid to DO something about it.
Here’s a link to an NYT story about Brazilians leaving. I have a friend in Mass who says that the Brazilians are heading home because they can’t renew their driver’s license.
I’ve long believed that we could pare down the problem by simply enforcing existing laws. the Illegal immigrants have overstepped their bounds and America has had enough of them
This, btw, is in answer to an earlier question requesting proof that illegals are returning under their own power.
Guys, those who are “self-deporting” are a small number of a huge population, the parenthetical “drop in a bucket” and you know it!
Worse, the presumption is that there’s a place they can self-deport to, which there isn’t.
Most of those “self-deporting” will probably be back and will head for friendlier climes be it California, Atlanta or wherever because there’s nothing for them to go back to and they know the border remains porous.
Until we close the borders--if we can close the borders--and eliminate those state and local laws that make most of our cities and states sanctuaries for illegals, the problem will remain.
Here’s a link to an NYT story about Brazilians leaving. I have a friend in Mass who says that the Brazilians are heading home because they can’t renew their driver’s license.
I’ve long believed that we could pare down the problem by simply enforcing existing laws. the Illegal immigrants have overstepped their bounds and America has had enough of them
This, btw, is in answer to an earlier question requesting proof that illegals are returning under their own power.
Skip, this doesn’t answer my question how do you know how many are leaving? Many of the illegal workers already in the United States are likely to remain, regardless of whether they are offered a path to citizenship. It’s not humanly possible to round up and deport 12 million people. So what’s your solution?
http://tiny.cc/3p11d
I’ve long believed that we could pare down the problem by simply enforcing existing laws.
Not really. There are laws against using fake documents and there are the criminals who were supposed to be deported because they were found guilty of another crime, but being here illegally isn’t a crime per se.
the Illegal immigrants have overstepped their bounds
What are “their bounds?” Does anyone know?
and America has had enough of them
A good deal of Americans don’t feel this way.
Like them or not, illegals do a lot of the work in this country and a good deal of it’s good work.
They’re not all criminals and they’re not all sucking up “free” services, given what they contribute to the economy.
The majority of them are clean, polite, work hard and have Conservative values.
We have many illegals fighting in the armed forces.
Were we to close the borders (as much as that’s possible) and require them all to have some kind of ID/documents/visas, their cheap labor will no longer be an option and while what we’re paying for “free” medical care and education for them and their families will disappear as a cost, the cost of other goods and services will rise because they’ll have to be paid better wages and businesses will pass the cost on to us.
So, it’s going to cost us one way or another.
There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Ever.
Skip, this doesn’t answer my question how do you know how many are leaving? Many of the illegal workers already in the United States are likely to remain, regardless of whether they are offered a path to citizenship. It’s not humanly possible to round up and deport 12 million people. So what’s your solution?
You are asking a loaded question. the rhetorical flow of this paragraph is clear. It goes like this: no one can state specifically how many illegals will repatriate, therefore my theory, that few will repatriate, is valid.
sorry, I don’t buy that.
By way of establishing my bona fides let me state that I have lived on or near the Mexican border for close to twenty years. Having lived with this nightmare for that time I believe that we can indeed divide Illegals into two groups: the migrants and nesters.
The migrants are here to work. If we make that tough for them, they will not return. Or they will leave.
the nesters have settled here and made lives. the newspaper in Tucson (The Red Star) ran “human interest” stories about kids who were denied entry to college or something simply because thier parents never bothered to go through the process of naturalization.
As Americans debate this issue of illegals such emotional appeals will be everywhere. Again, I don’t buy that. I have to obey the law, there is no reason to allow others the priveledge of thumbing their noses at us.
As the work they do, so what? I completely disagree with the notion that the mexicans and others do the work that we won’t. I firmly believe that Americans will do the work, but not for the same price as the illegals. the illegals are depressing the wages of Americans and displacing the people at the bottom rung of our economic ladder.
so here’s my solution: (1) build a fence and a good one. Good Fences often make Good Neighbors.
(2) Take a public position that the problem of illegal mexicans in America is the result of a dysfunctional Mexican Government. Be Clear and plain spoken. There is NO reason why Mexico cannot have a vibrant economy. The jefes don’t want a middle class so the us us as a safety valve. Publically pressure the Mexicans themselves.
(3) Adopt biometric scanning so that people here can prove themselves easily. Making it difficult for illegals to work our system will discourage them. No driver’s licenses means higer risk of capture and deportation.
(4) I hate this, but it might just work: Tie federal funding to a demand that cities end their sanctuary status. Illegal status should be, in and of itself, a cause for arrest. By disauding cities away from the idiotic sanctuary status we can make the illegals feel even less welcome.
(5) Improve the process of naturalization so that the bureaucracy itself is NOT part of the problem.
(6) Profile! If there are citizens of certain countries that routinely overstay their visa, reduce or eliminate visa quotes for future visitors. For example, if the Saudi students never go home, reduce the number of new visas issued to Saudi citizens.
A good deal of Americans don’t feel this way.
Like them or not, illegals do a lot of the work in this country and a good deal of it’s good work.
They’re not all criminals and they’re not all sucking up “free†services, given what they contribute to the economy.
The majority of them are clean, polite, work hard and have Conservative values.
We have many illegals fighting in the armed forces.
Were we to close the borders (as much as that’s possible) and require them all to have some kind of ID/documents/visas, their cheap labor will no longer be an option and while what we’re paying for “free†medical care and education for them and their families will disappear as a cost, the cost of other goods and services will rise because they’ll have to be paid better wages and businesses will pass the cost on to us.
So, it’s going to cost us one way or another.
There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Ever.
I simply don’t agree with this Jen.
Capitalism is very often the process of getting work done via machines (capital) instead people (labor). The reason that some of these jobs haven’t been eliminated is that it is cheaper to pay illegals than to retool. When the cost of labor rises, the impetus to switch starts to grow.
Further, the illegal invasion has overwhelmed the social services providers, especially in the border region. How many SoCal hospitals have closed? How many trauma centers have shut down?
Twenty years ago I did a study of unpaid bills at a large urban trauma center. Of the top ten unpaid accounts, NINE of them were the result of the provision of trauma care to illegals who were struck by cars as they ran up the freeway.
These people are a problem. We must regain control of our border and our country.
It’s not humanly possible to round up and deport 12 million people. So what’s your solution?
With all due respect have you read nothing here or what? Arizona has a new employer sanction law. If found guilty of hiring illegals you lose you business licence for two days if caught again you lose it for life in the State of Arizona. Because of this many illegals are self deporting, now imagine if all 50 states did that. All we need to do is cut off all federal funding to any state that does not pass this type of law, it’s that simple. Meanwhile, these poor Mexicans self deporting can chose on self determination and take their country back from their crooked politicians. It’s a win win for everybody.
As far as doing the jobs nobody else will do is total B.S.. Heck, about 40% of Americans are dropping out out high school, their are plenty of uneducated Americans to do this work, just pay them alittle more. Again, a win win situation. remember each illegal is paying only about $3000.00 in taxes yet sucking about $16,000.00 out of social services per year, another reason they need to go.
It’s not humanly possible to round up and deport 12 million people. So what’s your solution?
With all due respect have you read nothing here or what? Arizona has a new employer sanction law. If found guilty of hiring illegals you lose you business licence for two days if caught again you lose it for life in the State of Arizona. Because of this many illegals are self deporting, now imagine if all 50 states did that. All we need to do is cut off all federal funding to any state that does not pass this type of law, it’s that simple. Meanwhile, these poor Mexicans self deporting can chose on self determination and take their country back from their crooked politicians. It’s a win win for everybody.
As far as doing the jobs nobody else will do is total B.S.. Heck, about 40% of Americans are dropping out out high school, their are plenty of uneducated Americans to do this work, just pay them alittle more. Again, a win win situation. remember each illegal is paying only about $3000.00 in taxes yet sucking about $16,000.00 out of social services per year, another reason they need to go.
TT I have read every word and I am just trying to understand the situation. I do not live in Arizona or even close to it. So having people pour into my state is unlikely (unless they are Canadians) This is strictly from a distance but if an employer can be fined what about the state of Arizona for the assistance provided for the illegals? If someone is applying for state aid can’t they be identified as illegal and then deported? Or even if they are found out sent to jail for fraud then deported? If you are going to remove the financial incentives then remove them all including social services.
I would love to see them all in L.A. and when they are done putting the finishing touches on bankrupting California we will see their hollyer than thow attitudes change.
When the taxes are through the roof and the voters there start chopping off heads in their elections. Then they can be the leaders in this battle. PHONIES.
If true, this is a positive development in the illegal immigration crisis. The shame is that the leading political figures are still dragging their feet on solving this problem properly.
I wish morons would not argue about fences. Yes, fences will stop some people. Yes, tougher border controls will stop some others. Yes, imprisonment of violent criminals will stop more. Yes, deportation (and the threat of it) is effective for many. Yes, cutting back on benefits for law-breakers will dissuade them. Yes, sanctioning employers will have an effect. Yes, letting the church understand that they are not to interfere in US law-enforcement will help. No, arguing about a thousand special-cases and exceptions will not do anything.
You have to do all of these things before the situation normalizes to the point where the dysfunctional Mexico has stopped spilling its problems into the US. It could turn around quickly if we really want it to.
TT I have read every word and I am just trying to understand the situation. I do not live in Arizona or even close to it. So having people pour into my state is unlikely (unless they are Canadians)…
Illegal immigration affects us all, whether we live near the border or not. We all pay taxes that fund education, welfare, and public health care, plus the expenses of those incarcerated in the federal penal system.
The costs of education, welfare, and health care would drop; CA alone spends approximately $8 billion a year to educate the children of illegal aliens. A large chunk of this money goes to the families of anchor babies, some of whom live across the border in Mexico, but cross over for their education, health care, and other benefits.
sgrc2001 - 24 December 2007 04:31 PM
This is strictly from a distance but if an employer can be fined what about the state of Arizona for the assistance provided for the illegals? If someone is applying for state aid can’t they be identified as illegal and then deported?
Yes and no. Yes, if they are illegal and are caught, they can be deported. However, sanctuary cities either do not require proof of legal residency or do not report them to DHS for deportation. No, because anchor babies are here legally and are used to access public services such as food stamps. Anchor babies cost Americans thousands of dollars before they even leave the hospital, particularly those born to “Spanish angels.” These are women who wait until they are in labor on the other side of the border; they then cross over, call 911, and are taken to the hospital where we pick up the tab. Since they generally have little or no pre-natal care, their labor, delivery, and post-natal care are exponentially more expensive.
Illegal aliens are bringing diseases such as leprosy, measles, meningitis, and drug-resistant TB into the country. Not only do they infect Americans, but we get to pick up the tab for their treatment: it costs approximately $100,000 to treat one patient with drug-resistant tuberculosis.
Do you have auto insurance? Because so many illegal aliens do not, you pay higher premiums. Ever use a hospital? You pay higher fees because of uninsured illegal aliens.
Something seldom mentioned in this debate is the negative effect it has on charities who assist the poor with food, clothing, and shelter. Lower income families depend on these resources to survive, but since need is the only requirement, they must compete for them with illegal aliens. The same is true for the elderly, the disabled, and the homeless: America’s most vulnerable citizens are forced by their own government to compete with illegal aliens for resources to survive.
Whether or not you live in a state with a high population density of illegal aliens, you’re still paying for their being here, just like the rest of us.
You are asking a loaded question. the rhetorical flow of this paragraph is clear. It goes like this: no one can state specifically how many illegals will repatriate, therefore my theory, that few will repatriate, is valid.
sorry, I don’t buy that.
By way of establishing my bona fides let me state that I have lived on or near the Mexican border for close to twenty years. Having lived with this nightmare for that time I believe that we can indeed divide Illegals into two groups: the migrants and nesters.
The migrants are here to work. If we make that tough for them, they will not return. Or they will leave.
the nesters have settled here and made lives. the newspaper in Tucson (The Red Star) ran “human interest” stories about kids who were denied entry to college or something simply because thier parents never bothered to go through the process of naturalization.
As Americans debate this issue of illegals such emotional appeals will be everywhere. Again, I don’t buy that. I have to obey the law, there is no reason to allow others the priveledge of thumbing their noses at us.
As the work they do, so what? I completely disagree with the notion that the mexicans and others do the work that we won’t. I firmly believe that Americans will do the work, but not for the same price as the illegals. the illegals are depressing the wages of Americans and displacing the people at the bottom rung of our economic ladder.
so here’s my solution: (1) build a fence and a good one. Good Fences often make Good Neighbors.
(2) Take a public position that the problem of illegal mexicans in America is the result of a dysfunctional Mexican Government. Be Clear and plain spoken. There is NO reason why Mexico cannot have a vibrant economy. The jefes don’t want a middle class so the us us as a safety valve. Publically pressure the Mexicans themselves.
(3) Adopt biometric scanning so that people here can prove themselves easily. Making it difficult for illegals to work our system will discourage them. No driver’s licenses means higer risk of capture and deportation.
(4) I hate this, but it might just work: Tie federal funding to a demand that cities end their sanctuary status. Illegal status should be, in and of itself, a cause for arrest. By disauding cities away from the idiotic sanctuary status we can make the illegals feel even less welcome.
(5) Improve the process of naturalization so that the bureaucracy itself is NOT part of the problem.
(6) Profile! If there are citizens of certain countries that routinely overstay their visa, reduce or eliminate visa quotes for future visitors. For example, if the Saudi students never go home, reduce the number of new visas issued to Saudi citizens.
I can go, but these alone would help us.
All of these are great initiatives, skip, and I wish our government would pass them. However, I would add that we must also end chain migration, dual citizenship, and anchor baby birthrights.
the anchor baby issue is huge. When I worked in Chula Vista the process was well understood. God Bless the parents who sneaked into our country so that their child could have a better life. But God condemn the feckless Mexicans for their inability to create the prosperity we enjoy.
