Power Line News

Raptavio - 30 October 2007 03:53 PM

The first example would be manslaugher or self-defense. The second is first degree murder. Those are actually different crimes.

If we followed your line of reasoning, you’d be tacking on an additional sentence for the jealousy. ...

Go to school. Learn something.

Wrong. Both cases are first-degree murder if the danger was not clear and present when the homicide was committed. However, one’s sincere belief in danger to one’s life (such as the “Burning Bed” scenario) will be a mitigating factor at sentencing.

In your fantasy world, all people convicted of the same crime with the same priors will receive the same sentence. We know this is not true.

So your response is to make the situation worse, and base that change on the thoughts or speach of the perp and the color of the victim? There is nothing ‘equal’ in that equal protection.

Raptavio - 30 October 2007 04:19 PM

Kdawg - 30 October 2007 04:13 PM

Once again, I challenge you to show any law that makes speech a “hate crime.” You have thrown up much chaff about that, but the only law you have cited doesn’t do what you claim.

Again, every “hate crimes” law is a “hate speech” law. Because it punishes “thought."… actually, that’s worse than a “hate speech” law. The law I cited does exactly what I claimed it does…

Denial won’t win you many arguments.

I see. So please show me a hate crime law that criminally punishes someone for simply hating, or speaking.

Hint: There isn’t one.

I know you caveated your question with ‘criminally’ but it does lead me to ask, what about campus speach codes. On campus one can get expelled for passing gas in the vicinity of the wrong sensistive person.

Let’s take Michigan law’s legally defined elements of felony murder:

The elements of felony murder are: (1) the killing of a human being, (2) with the intent to kill, to do great bodily harm, or to create a very high risk of death or great bodily harm with the knowledge that death or great bodily harm was a probable result, (3) while committing, attempting to commit, or assisting in the commission of any of the felonies listed in MCL 750.316; MSA 28.548.

See that? Intent, knowledge - they are ELEMENTS of a crime. Those elements MUST be proven to support the conviction.

That does not sound right. Those are elements of the crime, felony murder. If those elements are not present, the crime ‘felony murder’ did not occur and the perp is prosecuted under another statute. If you add ‘hate motive’ to the list of elements, then you find yourself in the same situation you would have if you were lacking any other element of the crime. If you need a hate motive to convict for felony murder and lacked it, there could be no case brought. What you are doing is adding this particular motive separate, so that you still get to prosecute for felony murder but you also get to assign more punishment. That is not an element fo the crime but is instead a punishment enhancement device, and one that only applies to certain folk and only protects other specific folk in application.

It is a lot like the argument that the death penalty is wrong because it overwhelmingly affects folk of color. This works the same way, the law is wrong because it creates a separate class of perps and allows special groups of victims.

There is no equal protection.