Oh come on, everybody. Cho was a forlorn, mentally ill a**hole. His crimes weren’t caused by politics or videogames or liberal thinking. Don’t you realize that you are climbing onto the bodies of the victims when you attribute his rampage to those who disagree with you?
A) I noticed you didn’t acknowledge the association of Olson/Soliah with leftist groups replete throughout major media like CNN.
I never said that Soliah was never identified as a Leftist. I said exactly what your first cited source said:
Soccer mom has been media shorthand for Olson since June 1999 when the FBI arrested her on bombing charges from 1976, when she was a radical named Kathleen Soliah.
There was an effort, peppered throughout the news, to portray Soliah as something other than a radical Leftist. Many local Strib articles named her “radical 70’s activist”, “revolutionary”, and “soccer mom” all in the same article, while failing to cite her extreme Leftist positions, often leaving it up to the reader to remember that the SLA was indeed a far-Left group. Just because you find articles that associate her with the Left does not negate my point.
B) What happened at Waco was a mass suicide. When Janet Reno took office the siege was already underway. Since you’re accusing her of “massacring” the people at Waco, please tell me how, when she inhereted this siege upon taking office, that she could have prevented the deaths while still taking Koresh and the other shooters to justice.
Reno was in charge. She was responsible. I have no idea what I would have done differently, but it happened on her watch, and innocent children died. It was a blunder of monumental proportions.
Look, I am not taking the position of defending a wacko like Koresh. My point was that Liddy was obviously responding to an overstep by the ATF that had him outraged, and Ruby Ridge and Waco were the two outrageous oversteps of authority that came to mind.
A) I noticed you didn’t acknowledge the association of Olson/Soliah with leftist groups replete throughout major media like CNN.
I never said that Soliah was never identified as a Leftist. I said exactly what your first cited source said:
Soccer mom has been media shorthand for Olson since June 1999 when the FBI arrested her on bombing charges from 1976, when she was a radical named Kathleen Soliah.
There was an effort, peppered throughout the news, to portray Soliah as something other than a radical Leftist. Many local Strib articles named her “radical 70’s activist”, “revolutionary”, and “soccer mom” all in the same article, while failing to cite her extreme Leftist positions, often leaving it up to the reader to remember that the SLA was indeed a far-Left group. Just because you find articles that associate her with the Left does not negate my point.
B) What happened at Waco was a mass suicide. When Janet Reno took office the siege was already underway. Since you’re accusing her of “massacring” the people at Waco, please tell me how, when she inhereted this siege upon taking office, that she could have prevented the deaths while still taking Koresh and the other shooters to justice.
Reno was in charge. She was responsible. I have no idea what I would have done differently, but it happened on her watch, and innocent children died. It was a blunder of monumental proportions.
Look, I am not taking the position of defending a wacko like Koresh. My point was that Liddy was obviously responding to an overstep by the ATF that had him outraged, and Ruby Ridge and Waco were the two outrageous oversteps of authority that came to mind.
Are you saying that the only thing you need to do is shoot at authorities when they come to your door to serve a warrant and the authorities have automatically “overstepped their authority”??
You’re absolutely sure that the ATF started that fire?? I watched it live. It was obvious that accelerant had been distributed within that facility. The fire progressed way too fast. Koresh killed those kids. To say that the only way the kids would have survived is for the ATF to have left Koresh alone only provides an example that the way you get the feds to leave is hostage off your own children.
You say you’re not defending Koresh and in the next sentence, you do exactly that.
Are you saying that the only thing you need to do is shoot at authorities when they come to your door to serve a warrant and the authorities have automatically “overstepped their authority”??
You’re absolutely sure that the ATF started that fire?? I watched it live. It was obvious that accelerant had been distributed within that facility. The fire progressed way too fast. Koresh killed those kids. To say that the only way the kids would have survived is for the ATF to have left Koresh alone only provides an example that the way you get the feds to leave is hostage off your own children.
You say you’re not defending Koresh and in the next sentence, you do exactly that.
I suppose I don’t get it. Cho and McVeigh were both nuts. McVeigh was heavy into meth once he left the Army and I believe a court appointed shrink said he was definitely psychotic. Nut cases. So, what is the point? Yes, there is media bias (to the Left; we went through that on a couple of threads)but I do not think that applies in this instance. How many 23 year-old college students are not liberal? If media bias was present, why did CBS play the video? Ratings?
I also don’t understand why the Korean people believe they have to apologize for a psycho. We make too much of these things. It was a tragedy, let’s remember and move on.
I never said that Soliah was never identified as a Leftist. I said exactly what your first cited source said:
Soccer mom has been media shorthand for Olson since June 1999 when the FBI arrested her on bombing charges from 1976, when she was a radical named Kathleen Soliah.
There was an effort, peppered throughout the news, to portray Soliah as something other than a radical Leftist. Many local Strib articles named her “radical 70’s activist”, “revolutionary”, and “soccer mom” all in the same article, while failing to cite her extreme Leftist positions, often leaving it up to the reader to remember that the SLA was indeed a far-Left group. Just because you find articles that associate her with the Left does not negate my point.
Well, you know what, IDP? She was something other than a radical Leftist. She was, in fact, a soccer mom. She was a radical. She was a revolutionary. She was also a radical leftist. All these things are absolutely true. While she committed her crimes, she was a radical leftist and a criminal. Every source I could find from the time of her arrest and trial noted she or her group was “radical” or “leftist.” I can find zero evidence to support your allegation that they tried to distance her from being a radical leftist, your claims about the Strib’s reporting notwithstanding.
B) What happened at Waco was a mass suicide. When Janet Reno took office the siege was already underway. Since you’re accusing her of “massacring” the people at Waco, please tell me how, when she inhereted this siege upon taking office, that she could have prevented the deaths while still taking Koresh and the other shooters to justice.
Reno was in charge. She was responsible. I have no idea what I would have done differently, but it happened on her watch, and innocent children died. It was a blunder of monumental proportions.
So you firmly don’t believe the die was cast or that Reno’s two options were to “cut and run” or to keep the siege going until they committed mass suicide, but you don’t present any alternative that would have prevented the mass suicide without letting these murderers and child molesters go free.
And your opinion has merit why, exactly?
Look, I am not taking the position of defending a wacko like Koresh. My point was that Liddy was obviously responding to an overstep by the ATF that had him outraged, and Ruby Ridge and Waco were the two outrageous oversteps of authority that came to mind.
So this justifies convicted felon Liddy advocating for the murder of men and women dedicated to enforcing our laws and protecting our citizens, in your mind?
I also don’t understand why the Korean people believe they have to apologize for a psycho. We make too much of these things. It was a tragedy, let’s remember and move on.
The Koreans have a strong cultural sense of mutual responsibility. What one Korean does reflects on all. Frankly, I think that’s a point in their favor.
So this justifies convicted felon Liddy advocating for the murder of men and women dedicated to enforcing our laws and protecting our citizens, in your mind?
Absolutely not. I was merely pointing out that Vlad’s citing that quote out of its proper context does not constitute a legitimate example of Conservative radio as it pertained to this discussion.
This is all a convolution of my point. Good job taking me down the rabbit trail.
The fact remains that Cho’s rant was extreme Leftist in nature, and the media ignored that aspect. A thing they never do when they have the opportunity to label someone a Right-wing extremist, as they did with McVeigh and Koresh. Again, both were Right-wing extremists - that’s not my beef. My problem is the media and its editorial decisions with the news. As much as McVeigh and Koresh were Right-wing nuts and properly labeled so, the media should have given attention to the fact that Cho was a Left-wing nut.
But he wasn’t. Some of his rant could arguably be called leftist. Some of it could arguably be called Rightist. But it was all but incomprehensible, almost definitely schizophrenic. You can’t say the same about McVeigh or Koresh, who were both lucid. Plus, both did what they did for political/religious reasons. Cho did what he did out of pure rage.
Which is why the Soliah case is so important to your claim. Soliah was lucid, not schizoid, and she was repeatedly identified as a onetime leftist radical. As I proved.
Give up, IDP. Your position is absolutely groundless.
But he wasn’t. Some of his rant could arguably be called leftist. Some of it could arguably be called Rightist. But it was all but incomprehensible, almost definitely schizophrenic. You can’t say the same about McVeigh or Koresh, who were both lucid. Plus, both did what they did for political/religious reasons. Cho did what he did out of pure rage.
Which is why the Soliah case is so important to your claim. Soliah was lucid, not schizoid, and she was repeatedly identified as a onetime leftist radical. As I proved.
Give up, IDP. Your position is absolutely groundless.
And in that regard, I take you back to the first article you cited.
Soccer mom has been media shorthand for Olson since June 1999 when the FBI arrested her on bombing charges from 1976, when she was a radical named Kathleen Soliah.
Even in the context of your article that mentions Soliah’s radical Leftism, it is acknowledged that what I say is true regarding her treatment in the media.
Tim McVeigh, a meth addict who blew up innocent children, and David Koresh, a cult leader who allegedly condoned the raping of children, lucid? I don’t think we can assume that Rap. I don’t think we can assume that at all. We don’t know in any detail the mental state of either of these two individuals during their moments of infamy.
Cho was definitely greatly disturbed. That does not change the fact that he railed against capitalism, Christianity, affluence, and opulence, and saw himself as a victim of monumental proportions. These very characteristics can be found at any Left-wing rally.
And in that regard, I take you back to the first article you cited.
Soccer mom has been media shorthand for Olson since June 1999 when the FBI arrested her on bombing charges from 1976, when she was a radical named Kathleen Soliah.
Even in the context of your article that mentions Soliah’s radical Leftism, it is acknowledged that what I say is true regarding her treatment in the media.
No. Your allegation - your false one - is that her depiction as a soccer mom was not an accurate one - and I can give you personal testimony that it was - and that her depiction as such was an effort to distract from her days as a leftist radical - and the repeated description of her as a leftist radical puts a lie to that claim.
Your claim hinges on the logical leap that accurately describing her lifestyle as that of a “soccer mom” excludes her from being described as a leftist radical - and that’s been demonstrated to not be true. Give up, dude. Even without the evidence, your reasoning is fallacious.
Tim McVeigh, a meth addict who blew up innocent children, and David Koresh, a cult leader who allegedly condoned the raping of children, lucid? I don’t think we can assume that Rap.
Uh, yes we can, as we have their interviews and speeches to show they were lucid. I think you don’t understand the term ‘lucid’.
I don’t think we can assume that at all. We don’t know in any detail the mental state of either of these two individuals during their moments of infamy.
Yes we do. McVeigh was interviewed more than once. Koresh made a number of speeches during his siege.
Cho was definitely greatly disturbed. That does not change the fact that he railed against capitalism, Christianity, affluence, and opulence, and saw himself as a victim of monumental proportions. These very characteristics can be found at any Left-wing rally.
I have to go work now.
He compared himself to Christ, and if you haven’t been watching, he also railed against their hedonistic debaucheries - a very moralistic rant associated with the Right, as is of late the victim mentality.
You cherry-picked from the incoherent rantings of a deranged individual those which aligned with your image of leftism, and deliberately ignored those which aligned with your image of the right-wing.
I lived in the same building as Cho last year, and I got to know him a bit. The person who wrote to say he was “ideologically liberal” is a liar. Cho was as conservative as could be, and in the few interactions I had with him when we talked politics, he made it clear he thought liberals were idiots. He regularly listened to talk radio and was a big fan of guns. He grew up in a red state, the son of conservative Korean parents, and he ended up going down in a blaze of glory, the dream ending for certain types of conservatives.
There is no question he was a conservative. And as a conservative myself, it pains me to admit it.
