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US Soldier refuses to serve in “Illegal Iraq War”
Posted: 16 May 2008 02:46 PM

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W. Churchill
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US soldier refuses to serve in ‘illegal Iraq war’

May 16 10:49 AM US/Eastern
318 Comments

‘Illegal Occupation’: US Soldier Refuses To Deploy To Iraq

Matthis Chiroux is the kind of young American US military recruiters love.
“I was from a poor, white family from the south, and I did badly in school,” the now 24-year-old told AFP.

“I was ‘filet mignon’ for recruiters. They started phoning me when I was in 10th grade,” or around 16 years old, he added.

Chiroux joined the US army straight out of high school nearly six years ago, and worked his way up from private to sergeant.

He served in Afghanistan, Germany, Japan, and the Philippines and was due to be deployed next month in Iraq.

On Thursday, he refused to go, saying he considers Iraq an illegal war.

“I stand before you today with the strength and clarity and resolve to declare to the military, my government and the world that this soldier will not be deploying to Iraq,” Chiroux said in the sun-filled rotunda of a congressional building in Washington.

“My decision is based on my desire to no longer continue violating my core values to support an illegal and unconstitutional occupation… I refuse to participate in the Iraq occupation,” he said, as a dozen veterans of the five-year-old Iraq war looked on.

Minutes earlier, Chiroux had cried openly as he listened to former comrades-in-arms testify before members of Congress about the failings of the Iraq war.

The testimonies were the first before Congress by Iraq veterans who have turned against the five-year-old war.

Former army sergeant Kristofer Goldsmith told a half-dozen US lawmakers and scores of people who packed into a small hearing room of “lawless murders, looting and the abuse of countless Iraqis.”

He spoke of the psychologically fragile men and women who return from Iraq, to find little help or treatment offered from official circles.

Goldsmith said he had “self-medicated” for several months to treat the wounds of the war.

Another soldier told AFP he had to boost his dosage of medication to treat anxiety and social agoraphobia—two of many lingering mental wounds he carries since his deployments in Iraq—before testifying.

Some 300,000 of the 1.6 million US soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan suffer from the psychological traumas of post-traumatic stress disorder, depression or both, an independent study showed last month.

A group of veterans sitting in the hearing room gazed blankly as their comrades’ testimonies shattered the official version that the US effort in Iraq is succeeding.

Almost to a man, the soldiers who testified denounced serious flaws in the chain of command in Iraq.

Luis Montalvan, a former army captain, accused high-ranking US officers of numerous failures in Iraq, including turning a blind eye to massive fraud on the part of US contractors.

Ex-Marine Jason Lemieux told how a senior officer had altered a report he had written because it slammed US troops of using excessive force, firing off thousands of rounds of machine gun fire and hundreds of grenades in the face of a feeble four rounds of enemy fire.

Goldsmith accused US officials of censorship.

“Everyone who manages a blog, Facebook or Myspace out of Iraq has to register every video, picture, document of any event they do on mission,” Goldsmith told AFP after the hearing.

“You’re almost always denied before you are allowed to send them home.”

Officials take “hard facts and slice them into small pieces to make them presentable to the secretary of state or the president—and all with the intent of furthering the occupation of Iraq,” Goldsmith added.

Chiroux is one of thousands of US soldiers who have deserted since the Iraq war began in 2003, according to figures issued last year by the US army.

But while many seek refuge in Canada, the young soldier vowed to stay in the United States to fight “whatever charges the army levels at me.”

The US army defines a deserter as someone who has been absent without leave for 30 days.

Chiroux stood fast in his resolve to not report for duty on June 15.

“I cannot deploy to Iraq, carry a weapon and not be part of the problem,” he told AFP.

Looks like to me the wheels are falling off the bush wagon.

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Posted: 16 May 2008 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 1 ]

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W. Churchill
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USATODAY.com - 8000 desert during Iraq warMar 7, 2006 ... Since fall 2003, 4387 Army soldiers, 3454 Navy sailors and 82 Air Force personnel have deserted. The Marine Corps does not track the number ...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-07-deserters_x.htm - 49k - Cached - Similar pages

Shocked me, how about you?

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The
pacifists
always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them

 
 
Posted: 17 May 2008 10:40 AM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 2 ]

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The Gipper
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oldjim - 16 May 2008 03:18 PM

USATODAY.com - 8000 desert during Iraq warMar 7, 2006 ... Since fall 2003, 4387 Army soldiers, 3454 Navy sailors and 82 Air Force personnel have deserted. The Marine Corps does not track the number ...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-07-deserters_x.htm - 49k - Cached - Similar pages


Shocked me, how about you?

You Betcha ...

old jim

hillputer4.gif

I’m “shocked” that anyone believes those numbers.  How many of those were simply late in returning from leave, medical re-hab, or ran from live fire, etc.?

“Chiroux is one of thousands of US soldiers who have deserted since the Iraq war began in 2003, according to figures issued last year by the US army.

But while many seek refuge in Canada, the young soldier vowed to stay in the United States to fight “whatever charges the army levels at me.”

The US army defines a deserter as someone who has been absent without leave for 30 days.

Chiroux stood fast in his resolve to not report for duty on June 15.

“I cannot deploy to Iraq, carry a weapon and not be part of the problem,” he told AFP.

Actually ...

Only a VERY few have sought refuge in Canada.  And they have been refused asylum.  Word gets around damn fast, but not fast enough for that stupid Frog (AFP) author to dust off a piece someone wrote 40 years ago about Vietnam!

Good old jim ... He’s always right on the ball.

.

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~(Ä)~ 1st Bn, 87th Inf: Vires Montesque Vincimus!

 
 
Posted: 17 May 2008 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 3 ]

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A. Lincoln
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Since when did jim allow facts to get in the way of a good old fashioned 1960’s rant? Actually, oldjim was having a “flashback” to when he ran off to Canada!

“thousands have deserted!!!!”

:lol:

oldjim.jpg

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Haneek rabbak - - Nanat sag suk mizaneh! - - Islam: Religion of Evil!

“To ERR is human, to FORGIVE divine. HOWEVER, neither is Marine Corps Policy.”

:coolgrin:

 
 
Posted: 17 May 2008 07:48 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 4 ]

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B. Goldwater
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So, old fellow, how’s that Ehren Watada case coming along?

You remember him, he’s the rich kid from Hawaii (went to the same school as Obama, in fact) who did the exact same thing a few years ago?

As we speak, his lawyers have been tying up the military justice system for over a year.

(Laughter)

 
 
Posted: 17 May 2008 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 5 ]  
W. Churchill
Total Posts:  3895
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Rocketman ~(Ä)~ - 17 May 2008 10:40 AM

oldjim - 16 May 2008 03:18 PM
USATODAY.com - 8000 desert during Iraq warMar 7, 2006 ... Since fall 2003, 4387 Army soldiers, 3454 Navy sailors and 82 Air Force personnel have deserted. The Marine Corps does not track the number ...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-07-deserters_x.htm - 49k - Cached - Similar pages


Shocked me, how about you?

You Betcha ...

old jim

hillputer4.gif

I’m “shocked” that anyone believes those numbers.  How many of those were simply late in returning from leave, medical re-hab, or ran from live fire, etc.?

“Chiroux is one of thousands of US soldiers who have deserted since the Iraq war began in 2003, according to figures issued last year by the US army.

But while many seek refuge in Canada, the young soldier vowed to stay in the United States to fight “whatever charges the army levels at me.”

The US army defines a deserter as someone who has been absent without leave for 30 days.

Chiroux stood fast in his resolve to not report for duty on June 15.

“I cannot deploy to Iraq, carry a weapon and not be part of the problem,” he told AFP.

Actually ...

Only a VERY few have sought refuge in Canada.  And they have been refused asylum.  Word gets around damn fast, but not fast enough for that stupid Frog (AFP) author to dust off a piece someone wrote 40 years ago about Vietnam!

Good old jim ... He’s always right on the ball.

.

I guess you put the ball squarely in his court. LOL

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We can have no “50-50” allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all.

 
 
Posted: 17 May 2008 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 6 ]

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D. Miller
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There’s one huge problem with this soldier’s position.  There’s been no determination that the war is illegal.

David Horowitz, of FrontPage Magazine, has an interesting take on when the war became “illegal”.  It was after Howard Dean got a decent approval rating on a Moveon.org poll, and presidential hopefuls John Kerry and John Edwards decided they needed to be on that anti-war bandwagon if they were going to get anywhere.

.
Edited to add:  He discusses it here under the Feature caption, “David Horowitz discusses Party of Defeat

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Default.aspx

 
 
Posted: 17 May 2008 11:25 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 7 ]

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W. Churchill
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Andrea in NY - 17 May 2008 09:49 PM

There’s one huge problem with this soldier’s position.  There’s been no determination that the war is illegal.

David Horowitz, of FrontPage Magazine, has an interesting take on when the war became “illegal”.  It was after Howard Dean got a decent approval rating on a Moveon.org poll, and presidential hopefuls John Kerry and John Edwards decided they needed to be on that anti-war bandwagon if they were going to get anywhere.



.
Edited to add:  He discusses it here under the Feature caption, “David Horowitz discusses Party of Defeat

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Default.aspx

The dems have an underlying problem if they let any of these guys off easy. That will spell open season on any Dem administration in the future. 

The boys might not want to serve under them and this leaves it open for the soldiers to call any action illegal and refuse to serve in a time of need.

Kind of a new twist on this anti war crap isn’t it? It could really come back and nip their buns.

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We can have no “50-50” allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all.

 
 
Posted: 18 May 2008 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 8 ]

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D. Miller
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I am shocked!  oj with a negative post about the Iraq war!  What’s next!?  Crime in NYC?  Darkness when the sun goes down?

Like his heroes Pelosi and Reid and company, whatever it takes to undermine the effort is oj’s objective.  Whatever it takes to show al Qaeda and other radicals that if you just hold on, relief is on the way. 

I’m so shocked, I usually give a little chuckle when I read one of oj’s rants.  He has entertainment value, like Reverend Jim on “Taxi”.

 
 
Posted: 18 May 2008 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 9 ]

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The Gipper
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From jimmy’s link.  The article contradicts o.j.’s point:

desertionsdrop.jpg

Desertion numbers have dropped since 9/11. The Army, Navy and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared with 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001. That had declined by 148 in 2005.
The desertion rate was much higher during the Vietnam era. The Army saw a high of 33,094 deserters in 1971 — 3.4% of the Army force. But there was a draft and the active-duty force was 2.7 million.
Desertions in 2005 represent 0.24% of the 1.4 million U.S. forces.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It appears as though that members of the military take their oath and their responsibilities much more seriously THESE days.

Putz

.

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Posted: 18 May 2008 03:37 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 10 ]  
W. Churchill
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whiterabbit - 18 May 2008 09:08 AM

I am shocked!  oj with a negative post about the Iraq war!  What’s next!?  Crime in NYC?  Darkness when the sun goes down?

Like his heroes Pelosi and Reid and company, whatever it takes to undermine the effort is oj’s objective.  Whatever it takes to show al Qaeda and other radicals that if you just hold on, relief is on the way. 

I’m so shocked, I usually give a little chuckle when I read one of oj’s rants.  He has entertainment value, like Reverend Jim on “Taxi”.

Take one post, giggle boy on a thread started by me and prove me wrong. and You come back and tell me about it, o.k.?

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The
pacifists
always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them

 
 
Posted: 18 May 2008 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 11 ]  
D. Miller
Total Posts:  1461
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Sure, oj.  I could, I’ve done it a few times in the past, but why don’t we look at this one, shall we? 

Here’s what I said:
I am shocked!  oj with a negative post about the Iraq war!  What’s next!?  Crime in NYC?  Darkness when the sun goes down?

Like his heroes Pelosi and Reid and company, whatever it takes to undermine the effort is oj’s objective.  Whatever it takes to show al Qaeda and other radicals that if you just hold on, relief is on the way. 

I’m so shocked, I usually give a little chuckle when I read one of oj’s rants.  He has entertainment value, like Reverend Jim on “Taxi”.

First, I didn’t dispute your numbers, others here have done that.
Second, my principal point is that you are monolithically negative when it comes to anything Bush, particulartly when it comes to the Iraq war. You are nearly deranged in that regard. 
Third, your usual rants are all over the place, half decipherable, half not.
Fourth, here are some numbers for you:
2007 desertion rates are nearly identical to 2001 and 2002, before Iraq.  2001 - 4597, 2002 - 4483, 2007 - 4698. Oops!  Seems that numbers can be deceiving and in your case, used indiscriminately for crisis on demand. 

To a normal person the fact that desertion rates, on average, are historically low since the invasion would seem to indicate that the vast majority of military personnel are still behind the war despite the assinine efforts of the more Left-leaning Democrats and their spagetti-legged constituents.  But that’s the perspective of a normal person.  You are exempt.

 
 
Posted: 18 May 2008 08:50 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 12 ]  
W. Churchill
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Joined 2007-07-11 USATODAY.com - 8000 desert during Iraq warMar 7, 2006 ... Since fall 2003, 4387 Army soldiers, 3454 Navy sailors and 82 Air Force personnel have deserted. The Marine Corps does not track the number ...

There is a slight difference in the numbers not much tho, I did not borther to add or subtract.
One thing about your post is dead on target, I loath and despise bush, as any thinking person does.
Normal in our society today is sick.
Thank god I am healthy.

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The
pacifists
always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them

 
 
Posted: 18 May 2008 11:10 PM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 13 ]  
D. Miller
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oldjim - 18 May 2008 08:50 PM


I loath and despise bush, as any thinking person does.
Normal in our society today is sick.
Thank god I am healthy.

This is neither normal nor healthy. Any thinking person should know that.

 
 
Posted: 19 May 2008 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 14 ]  
W. Churchill
Total Posts:  3980
Joined  2007-07-11
Andrea in NY - 18 May 2008 11:10 PM

oldjim - 18 May 2008 08:50 PM


I loath and despise bush, as any thinking person does.
Normal in our society today is sick.
Thank god I am healthy.

This is neither normal nor healthy. Any thinking person should know that.

ARE YOU SURE?

Shall I put a bell on your leg? Then when it rings, you will know its being pulled.

By the way, did anyone read the article about the soldier who went before congress and told them we are being told a pack of lies?
The orginal thrust of the story?

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The
pacifists
always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them

 
 
Posted: 19 May 2008 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]  [ # 15 ]  
W. Churchill
Total Posts:  3980
Joined  2007-07-11

He spoke of the psychologically fragile men and women who return from Iraq, to find little help or treatment offered from official circles.

Goldsmith said he had “self-medicated” for several months to treat the wounds of the war.

Another soldier told AFP he had to boost his dosage of medication to treat anxiety and social agoraphobia—two of many lingering mental wounds he carries since his deployments in Iraq—before testifying.

Some 300,000 of the 1.6 million US soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan suffer from the psychological traumas of post-traumatic stress disorder, depression or both, an independent study showed last month.

A group of veterans sitting in the hearing room gazed blankly as their comrades’ testimonies shattered the official version that the US effort in Iraq is succeeding. LIKE THE 1000 YARD STARE FROM NAM?

Almost to a man, the soldiers who testified denounced serious flaws in the chain of command in Iraq.

Luis Montalvan, a former army captain, accused high-ranking US officers of numerous failures in Iraq, including turning a blind eye to massive fraud on the part of US contractors.

Ex-Marine Jason Lemieux told how a senior officer had altered a report he had written because it slammed US troops of using excessive force, firing off thousands of rounds of machine gun fire and hundreds of grenades in the face of a feeble four rounds of enemy fire.
Any comments worth posting about what these men have to say?
Or do some of you think they are just dirty rotten liars and whiny crybabies and not REAL LEAN MEAN FIGHTING FOR BUSH MACHINES? BAH!

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The
pacifists
always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them

 
 
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