Power Line News

Let’s put aside for a moment McCain/Feingold and the right’s other grievances against John McCain. When it comes to the war on terror, is he the L

» View the article

I signed it.  I’ve not been shy about criticizing Sen McCain, so I must give credit where it is due.  Thank you Sen McCain.

McCain, good man, good message, running hard for President. Nothing new. Lincoln model, no way, stands in the gap, GWB is in the gap.Lincoln, FDR, Truman were in the gap. Twenty years from now we might have an inkling who was the model for whom.

McCain’s problem is that whenever he does something good like this, he immediately goes and does something that angers me.  I am happy to have him on my side for this issue and I give him a ton of credit for the surge that is going so well right now, but no way am I supporting him in the primary.

McCain the Lincoln model ... NO, maybe more like the Lincoln Chafee model. Being from Arizona, I have had enough of Mr. McCain!!

Ghostbuster - 29 March 2007 07:22 PM

McCain the Lincoln model ... NO, maybe more like the Lincoln Chafee model. Being from Arizona, I have had enough of Mr. McCain!!

Great! What are you doing about it and how can we help?

Is McCain or Mirengoff more like Lincoln?

Which of the two views torture as advancing our national interest?

Which of the two would have been more likely to have hanged Jefferson Davis? Hanged Lee? Court-marti Longstreet? Lincoln saw through the temptations of his time to a greater calling.

Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain was another civil war hero who exhibited bravery beyond what few can imagine ... he called his men to attention as the surrendering Lee rode past. Lee and his men kept their rifles and their honor.

Do people who have never served a day in combat, but favor torturing the enemy over the objections of their uniformed advisors exhibit character consistent with Lincoln or Chamberlain?

As John McCain has said, the torture debate is about who we are.

When our soldiers come back, and they try to wrestle with the monsters in their head that emerge as they reflect from having had to kill people to do their duty, from having seen their best friends head roll beneath them, from seeing their buddy choke on his blood, from seeing the kids of his departed Staff Sergeant—they usually would rather know that we are, the last great hope on earth. Usually, they will find McCain’s reasoned leadership on this issue more in common with their soldier-soul than that of Professor Yoo, Attorney General Gonzalez, Lawyer Haynes, lawyer Addington, et al.

As I’ve said, soldiers know that if they are captured we will be tortured. We know the stories of Bataan, Hanoi, Baghdad. We draw the strength to survive from knowing that we are different.

Maybe the uniformed Generals (even so-called Clinton Generals)(who began as Reagan’s Lieutenants), and the survivors of Hanoi deserve some deference on this issue. I certainly haven’t been persuaded by reasoning of the new right.

I don’t care if you’ve ever served ... You can be hawkish, you can support the war,, you can be a patriotic well reasoned American. When you dismiss the uniformed Generals (overwhelmingly against the Yoo, Haynes, Addington camp—not even close) and the survivors of Hanoi, to favor the dubious intel you get from tortured interrogation ... you have no business finding comfort in the memory of Lincoln.

I don’t think I’ll vote for McCain in the primary, but I’m sure he gets my vote over Paul on this issue.

He stands in the gap in Terry Thomas’s front teeth.

He should stand in the gap as an independent rather than trying to win in a party where Dobson/Robertson/Falwell only ordain Presidential candidates whose Christianity reflects their own manner of worship.

non-neo-con - 29 March 2007 07:58 PM

Is McCain or Mirengoff more like Lincoln?  Which of the two would have been more likely to have hanged Jefferson Davis? Hanged Lee? Court-marti Longstreet? Lincoln saw through the temptations of his time to a greater calling.

Court martials and treason trials are not forms of torture, nor are the subsequent punishments if one is convicted of those charges.  Water boarding, a procedure to which our own soldiers are subjected, is also not a form of torture.  In fact, many of the interrogation tactics of our military can not be classified as torture because they do not inflict excruciating pain or cause permanent damage.  We’re not talking about floggings, rape, mutilation, or devices such as the rack and thumbscrews; the methods used are more psychological than physical.

As to Lincoln, Libby prison in DC, of which Lincoln must have been aware and in which many Confederate soldiers were incarcerated, was a cesspool run by a vicious sadist.  Sheridan’s assault on the Shenandoah Valley was a direct attack against the civilian population as was Sherman’s march to the sea.  As winter approached, families were literally cast out onto the road while their homes, barns, and crops were burned to the ground, so spare me the “Lincoln as saint” lectures. 

non-neo-con - 29 March 2007 07:58 PM

As John McCain has said, the torture debate is about who we are.

I don’t care if you’ve ever served ... You can be hawkish, you can support the war,, you can be a patriotic well reasoned American. When you dismiss the uniformed Generals (overwhelmingly against the Yoo, Haynes, Addington camp—not even close) and the survivors of Hanoi, to favor the dubious intel you get from tortured interrogation ... you have no business finding comfort in the memory of Lincoln.

I do not accept anyone’s expertise at face value, including generals whose last combat experience was over thirty years ago.  And while *you* may think that the intel from aggressive interrogations is dubious, many others more privy to such reports claim the opposite.  Judging from the number of times such intel has proven to be on the mark, I’ll go with the pros over the has-beens.  YMMV

McCain’s stance on the so-called torture debate reveals quite a lot about the Senator:  that he is willing to play dog in the manger to the war if he thinks it will give him the high moral ground in the upcoming primaries.  It also shows his ignorance on the subject since he apparently believes that playing loud rap music is on a par with Klaus Barbie’s interrogations in Lyons.  What I find most revealing, however, is that McCain thinks that our troops - those same troops whom he claims to support - would engage in such acts as are traditionally defined as torture, as though they are Death Head SS troops blindly obeying their fuehrer.

I can’t stand the man and can only wonder why the people of Arizona keep returning such a self-righteous blowhard to the Senate.  I wouldn’t vote to elect him as my local dog-catcher.